Collings Foundation B-17G 909 Has Crashed :-( 10/2/2019

[Firebird]

And at this point, unfortunately it doesn't look very good for Collings and obviously can have a trickle down effect on other operators.

Sadly, yes it doesn't look good for CF, and yes, the trickle down effect could also be equally bad for others, just as we've pretty much seen the almost total ending of jet warbird operations here in the UK as a result of the Shoreham Hunter crash.

[sandiego89]

More of a general feeling question......

Totally depends on the situation, and also important to remember that the insurance company or the estate might do something even if you do not "want" to do a lawsuit.

I am usually in the no lawsuit category when doing something that has a bit of risk. I ride motorcycles, hike, kayak etc. and assume that there is some risk and would never normally sue a landowner or operator when it comes to "accidents". Boats sink, planes crash, people slip, etc.

Now alleged gross misconduct, falsified or not completed maintenance is a whole other level. A good analogy may be some of the "Duck" boat accidents that I am sure your have heard about at CG HQ and are likely going away for good (with DUKW's at least). Would I take a duck boat ride? Maybe. Would I take a duck boat ride in a thunderstorm, no way. Would I take a duck boat ride if I knew they had falsified records and not conducted maintenance- absolutely no way.

[Xray]

And at this point, unfortunately it doesn't look very good for Collings and obviously can have a trickle down effect on other operators.

Sadly, yes it doesn't look good for CF, and yes, the trickle down effect could also be equally bad for others, just as we've pretty much seen the almost total ending of jet warbird operations here in the UK as a result of the Shoreham Hunter crash.

Crash in UK was indeed horrific, tough to even watch.

Not many people/groups with the capability and finances to operate jet warbirds [as you know] ... Outside of a few F-86's and Mig 15's, we have [had] a flying F-100 for a few years due solely to the efforts of 1 man, not sure what its status is now, hasn't made many shows last couple of years. Same with the F-4 Phantom, was reputed to be undergoing an avionics upgrade, don't think it has flown in at least 3 years.
Had a pair of F-104's flying the airshow circuit and I saw them once, don't think they are operational anymore. And there is a civilian A-4, can't think of any others they are truly a rarity. Has been talk for years of a civilian operated F-14, not holding my breath for that.
But my point is, even if they placed restrictions or an outright ban on civy operated jet warbirds, the effect would be almost unnoticeable. I think the effect will be felt mostly on groups that rely on finances from giving rides, Yankee AF for one in Ypsi MI with a flying B-17 and B-25.

[Mark Allen M]

we have [had] a flying F-100 for a few years due solely to the efforts of 1 man

I know Dean. He wouldn't agree with you.

http://www.businesspeople.com/Post/2724 ... could-talk

[Xray]

we have [had] a flying F-100 for a few years due solely to the efforts of 1 man

I know Dean. He wouldn't agree with you.

http://www.businesspeople.com/Post/2724 ... could-talk

I know he is not literally a 1 man show, aircraft would have never flown without 1 man and that is Dean.

[Mark Allen M]

I know he is not literally a 1 man show, aircraft would have never flown without 1 man and that is Dean.

Still wrong, but believe what you want to believe.

[Xray]

I know he is not literally a 1 man show, aircraft would have never flown without 1 man and that is Dean.

Still wrong, but believe what you want to believe.

I see I've had you on ignore for years, starting to see why, you are whining and argumentative.

[Mark Allen M]

[EDITED]

[Ryan Harris]

And at this point, unfortunately it doesn't look very good for Collings and obviously can have a trickle down effect on other operators.

Sadly, yes it doesn't look good for CF, and yes, the trickle down effect could also be equally bad for others, just as we've pretty much seen the almost total ending of jet warbird operations here in the UK as a result of the Shoreham Hunter crash.

Crash in UK was indeed horrific, tough to even watch.

Not many people/groups with the capability and finances to operate jet warbirds [as you know] ... Outside of a few F-86's and Mig 15's, we have [had] a flying F-100 for a few years due solely to the efforts of 1 man, not sure what its status is now, hasn't made many shows last couple of years. Same with the F-4 Phantom, was reputed to be undergoing an avionics upgrade, don't think it has flown in at least 3 years.
Had a pair of F-104's flying the airshow circuit and I saw them once, don't think they are operational anymore. And there is a civilian A-4, can't think of any others they are truly a rarity. Has been talk for years of a civilian operated F-14, not holding my breath for that.
But my point is, even if they placed restrictions or an outright ban on civy operated jet warbirds, the effect would be almost unnoticeable. I think the effect will be felt mostly on groups that rely on finances from giving rides, Yankee AF for one in Ypsi MI with a flying B-17 and B-25.

There are literally more jet warbirds flying in the US now, than at any other time. Most are L-39’s, but the fact still remains. As to the rest...there are 2 flying F-100’s, the F-4 last flew in December 2019 and could fly tomorrow if needed, the 2 airworthy F-104’s have now expanded to nearly 6 on a contract for NASA, there are about 20 civilian A-4s with more in the pipeline, and the F-14 is likely to never happen because there are no candidates to be had.

[Xray]

Well yeah, would be a stretch to think of an l39 as a warbird, but jet it is.

[Firebird]

Well yeah, would be a stretch to think of an l39 as a warbird, but jet it is.

In that case neither are the Jet Provost, T.11 Vampire, T.1 Gnat, T-33 or T-38?

And the T-6 Texan/SNJ/Harvard isn't a piston engined 'warbird' either I presume?

[Xray]

Not sure exactly what your point is firebird or if you have one, don't really feel like an off topic debate on what constitutes a jet warbird.
l39 has seen a bit of action in the 3rd world, don't really care to dig in any more in its rich and illustrious history.

[K5DH]

Dean's narrow-minded definition of "warbird": an ex-military aircraft which is now in civilian hands.

[ZRX61]

There are literally more jet warbirds flying in the US now, than at any other time. Most are L-39’s, but the fact still remains. As to the rest...there are 2 flying F-100’s, the F-4 last flew in December 2019 and could fly tomorrow if needed, the 2 airworthy F-104’s have now expanded to nearly 6 on a contract for NASA, there are about 20 civilian A-4s with more in the pipeline, and the F-14 is likely to never happen because there are no candidates to be had.

Art Nalls Harrier....

[Matt_in_NC]

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Not to thread jump too much, but the Harrier(s) are currently for sale on Courtesy.