This is the place where the majority of the warbird (aircraft that have survived military service) discussions will take place. Specialized forums may be added in the new future
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Re: PROJECT TERMINATED!!! ...

Mon Jul 06, 2020 10:54 am

Nah, there are at least TSR.2s remaining. Arrow and the XB-49 take it for worst way to be ended, both ordered to be chopped up on site immediately. However, the XB-49 got revenge with the B-2. The Arrow is still "Canada's Shame" and continues to be hotly debated even outside of the aviation and military communities.


I would add the Vought XF5U (jet-powered "flying flapjack") to that list. The story is that the plane was ready for first-flight when the Navy decided that it should be scrapped - NOW! The test pilot, so the story goes, had to physically restrained from getting into the cockpit and giving the plane a baptisimal circuit of the field.

Re: PROJECT TERMINATED!!! ...

Mon Jul 06, 2020 1:16 pm

The XF5U wasn’t jet powered

Image39315F7B-DD34-4794-8756-B69386B72576 by tanker622001, on Flickr

Re: PROJECT TERMINATED!!! ...

Mon Jul 06, 2020 4:54 pm

yea, my bad, I caught that just after I pushed submit...

Re: PROJECT TERMINATED!!! ...

Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:44 pm

Not only that, but the XF5U's predecessor, the V-173 still survives and is on display at the Frontiers of Flight Museum in Dallas -

(Link to Erik Johnson's excellent walk-around video of the V173)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSkVC9bC_Mg

As for the XF5U and the story of its cancellation, unfortunately that's a bit of artistic license. The program was cancelled in 1947, but the prototypes weren't scrapped until after 1949 and the V-173 was ordered into storage (and shortly after sent to the Smithsonian). The Navy did recognize the significance of the V-173, but the coming Jet Age ended any hope the XF5U had of being useful.

Here's a good article from Smithsonian Air & Space that covers not only the V-173, its storage, and its restoration, but the XF5U program -

https://www.airspacemag.com/history-of- ... 3-7990846/

Re: PROJECT TERMINATED!!! ...

Wed Jul 08, 2020 11:14 am

Kyleb wrote:
Mark Sampson wrote:Some decision-maker looked at the XP-60 and asked... just how is this better than the P-47?
Agreed, it's no fun when a big project gets cancelled.


The amazing thing, and something I genuinely don't understand, is how Curtiss went from producing a very modern aircraft (for its day) in the P-36, updating it into the P-40, and then repetitively stubbing its toe for the duration of the war. With available HP more than doubling over that timeframe, North American figuring out laminar flow, and a thousand other improvements coming down the pike, Curtiss couldn't stack up a few of those learning to make a better airplane? Theymade a brand new airplane 3 years after the first flight of the P-47 and the "new" airplane wasn't enough better to warrant even a sniff?


In a way, Curtiss was a victim of it's own success with the P-40. Like the B-17 (and the Bf109 FTM) they were no longer cutting edge - verging on obsolescent - but servicable, upgradeable and most importantly in production. Curtiss tried to develop modernized follow-ups - the XP-46, drawing on reports from Europe and actually ordered by the UK (The original "Kittyhawk") before pressure from the USAAC led the order to be cancelled in favor of continued P-40 production, explicitly to avoid the turnover time on the line.

Re: PROJECT TERMINATED!!! ...

Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:22 am

Kyleb wrote:
Mark Sampson wrote:Some decision-maker looked at the XP-60 and asked... just how is this better than the P-47?
Agreed, it's no fun when a big project gets cancelled.


The amazing thing, and something I genuinely don't understand, is how Curtiss went from producing a very modern aircraft (for its day) in the P-36, updating it into the P-40, and then repetitively stubbing its toe for the duration of the war. With available HP more than doubling over that timeframe, North American figuring out laminar flow, and a thousand other improvements coming down the pike, Curtiss couldn't stack up a few of those learning to make a better airplane? Theymade a brand new airplane 3 years after the first flight of the P-47 and the "new" airplane wasn't enough better to warrant even a sniff?


It is easy to understand when you consider they(Curtis) were the Top dog of the American aircraft manufacturing at that given time. They had more orders then they could handle and the Brits even tried to convince North American to make P-40s under license. Edward Shmued the chief designer for North American told his boss to turn the Brits down and he will build a better one. The laminar flow wing wasn't a step forward as easy as it may sound today. Shmued built 6000 hours into the initial bid for the contract for the P-51 just in case the laminar flow wing was a bust. They could build a conventional airfoil wing just in case and not lose money. Every dog has it's day and no different in business. Shmued hedged his bet.
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