Rare look at a Val dive bomber shot down at Pearl Harbor ...

[Mark Allen M]

The link below is interesting regarding the Pearl Harbor attack Japanese Aircraft Crash Sites Report from 1986.

https://www.nps.gov/parkhistory/online_ ... scrs2x.htm



Below series: A Type 99 'Val' dive-bomber being salvaged after being shot down during the Pearl Harbor attack. This one may be from the carrier Kaga. 5 Kate torpedo-bombers, four Zero fighters, and six Val dive-bombers for a total of 31 aircrews were lost. The Japanese only lost 29 planes and five midget submarines.

This Val has an interesting story. It is AII-251 from the carrier Kaga-piloted by Petty Officer 3rd Class Noboru Sakaguchi with PO3c Nagaaki Asahi as radioman/rear gunner. The aircraft had attacked the battleship USS Nevada when it was hit in the engine by AA fire and attempted to retreat north when something, perhaps a second AA burst, cut off its tail. The aircraft plunged into the Middle Loch of the harbor near the Pan American Airways Landing at Pearl City. It was low enough that both crew-members survived the impact. The destroyer/minesweeper USS Montgomery (DD-121) reported seeing the floating wreckage and dispatched a whaleboat to investigate.

As the boat drew close they could see the two Japanese crew-members. A Nisei (second-generation Japanese) implored one of the Japanese crew to give himself up. Instead, the Val crew-member drowned himself rather than be taken prisoner. The second crewman, unknown which one, was about to be brought on board as a prisoner when it was seen he was going for a pistol in his jacket and the coxwain shot him.

[p51]

Drowned himself? Man, that'd be tough to do in a shallow area like that.
I don't think they took any Japanese airmen alive from the raid, am I right about that?

[Steve Nelson]

Fantastic photos! Man..I wish they were in color.

SN

[phil65]

Wow...

That are those bladders coming out of the wings ?

Thanks.
Phil

[Kyleb]

Wow...

That are those bladders coming out of the wings ?

Thanks.
Phil

Probably flotation devices for the airframe. Quite a few US carrier based aircraft had those.

[Archer]

Don't know if they're flotation bags used in the recovery. If so, I would expect to see them on the photos of the wreck being lifted and on the barge. Instead, only one photo shows them and they appear to have identical square holes beneath them. Fuel bladders perhaps?

[Matt Gunsch]

They are floatation bags intended to keep the plane afloat longer to allow the crew time to get out and launch their raft. The F4F had them as well, but they were removed after several inflated in flight.

[shrike]

Drowned himself? Man, that'd be tough to do in a shallow area like that.
I don't think they took any Japanese airmen alive from the raid, am I right about that?

One, briefly, with long reaching consequences.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niihau_incident

[Kyleb]

They are floatation bags intended to keep the plane afloat longer to allow the crew time to get out and launch their raft. The F4F had them as well, but they were removed after several inflated in flight.

Devastators had them too.

[Michel Lemieux]

but they were removed after several inflated in flight

Now that would have been an interesting event for the pilot!!!!!!!

[Pogmusic]

Drowned himself? Man, that'd be tough to do in a shallow area like that.
I don't think they took any Japanese airmen alive from the raid, am I right about that?

No aircrew survived as you correctly clarified. One of the mini-sub's crew, Kazuo Sakamaki, was captured when his sub washed ashore. He was the first Japanese POW taken by US Forces in WWII. Interestingly, his photo was removed from the mini-sub participants memorial photo. He led an interesting life. http://www.kamikazeimages.net/books/per ... /index.htm

[Richard W.]

They are floatation bags intended to keep the plane afloat longer to allow the crew time to get out and launch their raft. The F4F had them as well, but they were removed after several inflated in flight.

Devastators had them too.

I have read that the flotation devices were removed from the TBDs early in the war out of concern that they might allow the Norden bombsight to fall into enemy hands.

I think it was in George Gay's book, Sole Survivor.

[Kyleb]

I have read that the flotation devices were removed from the TBDs early in the war out of concern that they might allow the Norden bombsight to fall into enemy hands.

I think it was in George Gay's book, Sole Survivor.

I hadn't heard that but it makes sense given the high value we placed on the Norden. Too bad it didn't produce the predicted results in the war. To actually hit anything from 25,000', you needed really good data about the winds aloft at all altitudes up to 25,000', you needed air density, you needed an accurate barometer setting, lots of stuff. Without all of that information, precision bombing isn't possible, even with a great bombsight.

Last edited by Kyleb on Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[old iron]

No aircrew survived as you correctly clarified. One of the mini-sub's crew, Kazuo Sakamaki, was captured when his sub washed ashore. He was the first Japanese POW taken by US Forces in WWII. Interestingly, his photo was removed from the mini-sub participants memorial photo. He led an interesting life. http://www.kamikazeimages.net/books/per ... /index.htm

I read somewhere a few years that there was a claim that another of the mini-sub crew members (from the Ward attack??) managed to get ashore and then blend in with the local population. Does anyone have more information on that story?

[p51]

Too bad it didn't produce the predicted results in the war. Tto actually hit anything from 25,000', you needed really good data about the winds aloft at all altitudes up to 25,000', you needed air density, you needed an accurate barometer setting, lots of stuff. Without all of that information, precision bombing isn't possible, even with a great bombsight.

The Norden was classic "stateside training thinking," where the brass get convinced that something works well in perfect stateside training conditions with plenty of time to use it right.
Same thing happened with the early M-16s in 'Nam as well, later.
I saw several things like that in my Army days, too. the early FBCB2 "blue force tracker" computer worked great under perfect conditions, but didn't worth for squat in the field if anything went wrong. Same deal with those early GPS units as well, but then again we called them "baby monitors" so command can go all "Blackhawk Down" and make you make each turn in a city instead of trusting in the initiative of your subordinates, but that's another topic.