color questions... dark sea blue
Mon Jun 12, 2006 2:29 pm
I have been trying to research Dark Sea Blue to paint my '35 Ford bonneville salt flats race car. Seems like none of the Corsairs today are the same colors from plane to plane. I bought some Testors Dark Sea Blue and unless it is in the right light it looks black. I want slightly brighter and bluer than that but I still want the color to be accurate. Almost as if the car were painted in surplus paint in 1946. Any suggestions?
What is the top color on a tri color? It "looks" lighter than dark sea blue. Honestly, THAT is the color I think I want, specifically like on Marine's Dream. Although I have heard that Marine's Dream isn't exactly accurate in color. Anyone know?
This Super Corsair is Dark Sea Blue and matches my Testors test panels.
And what is the difference between Dark Sea Blue and Overall Blue?
Found this article discussing WWII color photos. Found it pretty interesting... War in Color
Porsche Cayennes come in Dark Sea Blue. Anyone know how close it is to the real color used during the war?
Any help greatly appreciated!!
What is the top color on a tri color? It "looks" lighter than dark sea blue. Honestly, THAT is the color I think I want, specifically like on Marine's Dream. Although I have heard that Marine's Dream isn't exactly accurate in color. Anyone know?
This Super Corsair is Dark Sea Blue and matches my Testors test panels.
And what is the difference between Dark Sea Blue and Overall Blue?
Found this article discussing WWII color photos. Found it pretty interesting... War in Color
Porsche Cayennes come in Dark Sea Blue. Anyone know how close it is to the real color used during the war?
Any help greatly appreciated!!
Mon Jun 12, 2006 2:50 pm
I thought the official name for the 1940's, early 1950's dark blue used on Navy aircraft was "Glossy Sea Blue".
Mon Jun 12, 2006 6:09 pm
The offical term is Glossy Sea Blue, Fed. Spec. #15042. Most any large automotive paint store and ask if they have reference to Federal Spec. Number paint colors. Have them mix you a sample, or go to the hobby store, Model Masters enamel paints find #15042 use that for your color sample! good Luck,
Mon Jun 12, 2006 6:19 pm
15042 is what I bought, Dark Sea Blue according to Model Masters, which matches the Super Corsair above. What color would the top color of Marine's Dream be?
Mon Jun 12, 2006 7:09 pm
The Model master intermediate blue would be the lighter blue on MD. I don't have the FS number in fromnt of me.
I used white, intermediate blue and dark sea blue on my F4-U.
That blue looked a bit dark in scale, so I used Model master "Blue" (FS # pending) on the top of my TBM.
I liked the more weathered look on a well used TBM.
I used white, intermediate blue and dark sea blue on my F4-U.
That blue looked a bit dark in scale, so I used Model master "Blue" (FS # pending) on the top of my TBM.
I liked the more weathered look on a well used TBM.
Tue Jun 13, 2006 9:44 am
Nice models oscardeuce. Is it just the lighting that makes the top color on the corsair look brighter?
Re: color questions... dark sea blue
Tue Jun 13, 2006 1:55 pm
Django wrote:..........................
Porsche Cayennes come in Dark Sea Blue. Anyone know how close it is to the real color used during the war?
!
Don't go by Porsche's description of colours , I have a MARINE BLUE Porsche , the actual colour is grey until the sun is on it & then it has a purple sheen to it & a freind has a Diamond BLUE car that is a shade of silver !
Tue Jun 13, 2006 2:36 pm
Here's the pertinent info taken from a web site on Navy painting practices:
>>The Non-Specular, or Three-Tone, scheme appeared in February of 1943. Orders required all upper surfaces be Non-Specular Sea Blue 607, with Non-Specular Intermediate Blue 608 being applied to fuselage sides, vertical tail surfaces, and rudder. Undersurfaces were Non-Specular Insignia White 601. On aircraft with folding wings, the portion of the wing viewed when folded was painted Non-Specular Intemediate Blue 608.
In late March 1944, colors from the 1943 Three Tone scheme were changed from Non-Specular to Glossy. The exception to this rule was fighter aircraft, which were to now carry Glossy Sea Blue 623 overall. Non-Specular Sea Blue 607 could be substituted in areas where it was necessary to protect the pilot from sun glare.<<
So, "Marine's Dream" should carry Non-Spec Sea Blue on its' top surfaces. However, the color could be whatever suited Mr. Deickman's tastes and may, or may not, be entirely authentic.
>>The Non-Specular, or Three-Tone, scheme appeared in February of 1943. Orders required all upper surfaces be Non-Specular Sea Blue 607, with Non-Specular Intermediate Blue 608 being applied to fuselage sides, vertical tail surfaces, and rudder. Undersurfaces were Non-Specular Insignia White 601. On aircraft with folding wings, the portion of the wing viewed when folded was painted Non-Specular Intemediate Blue 608.
In late March 1944, colors from the 1943 Three Tone scheme were changed from Non-Specular to Glossy. The exception to this rule was fighter aircraft, which were to now carry Glossy Sea Blue 623 overall. Non-Specular Sea Blue 607 could be substituted in areas where it was necessary to protect the pilot from sun glare.<<
So, "Marine's Dream" should carry Non-Spec Sea Blue on its' top surfaces. However, the color could be whatever suited Mr. Deickman's tastes and may, or may not, be entirely authentic.
Tue Jun 13, 2006 2:45 pm
In 1943 the USN/USMC directive specified the new "tri-color" F4U scheme.
The fuselage top section was FS35042, Non-Specular Sea Blue. Non-specular paints are "flat" and don't reflect light which would interfere with the pilot's vision.
The upper wing surfaces were FS25042, Semi-Gloss Sea Blue. You can see that the FS number is the same except the first number, the "2" indicating a semi-gloss. You mentioned buying some FS15042 which is Glossy Sea Blue which was used many F4Us but not in a tri-color scheme.
Fuselage sides on the tri-color scheme were FS35164, Intermediate Blue and the undersurfaces were all painted FS37880, Insignia White.
"MARINE'S DREAM" appears to me to be painted in all glossy paint, which would be incorrect even if the tint of the color is correct.
Now.....is your race car a model we're talking about or a full sized, real automobile? If you're building a model, are you wanting to use enamels or acrylic paints? I personally use acrylics for ease but must admit that enamels can look much more realistic at times. Maybe you should order a few jars of FSx5042 from a variety of manufacturers and see which you prefer - Gunze or PollyScale make great acrylics and Humbrol is the king of enamels. Testors Model Master stuff is great but if you just aren't getting that shade to look how you want try a different manufacturer and maybe you'll find the match that looks good to your eye. Squadron.com should be able to ship you whatever you need.
The fuselage top section was FS35042, Non-Specular Sea Blue. Non-specular paints are "flat" and don't reflect light which would interfere with the pilot's vision.
The upper wing surfaces were FS25042, Semi-Gloss Sea Blue. You can see that the FS number is the same except the first number, the "2" indicating a semi-gloss. You mentioned buying some FS15042 which is Glossy Sea Blue which was used many F4Us but not in a tri-color scheme.
Fuselage sides on the tri-color scheme were FS35164, Intermediate Blue and the undersurfaces were all painted FS37880, Insignia White.
"MARINE'S DREAM" appears to me to be painted in all glossy paint, which would be incorrect even if the tint of the color is correct.
Now.....is your race car a model we're talking about or a full sized, real automobile? If you're building a model, are you wanting to use enamels or acrylic paints? I personally use acrylics for ease but must admit that enamels can look much more realistic at times. Maybe you should order a few jars of FSx5042 from a variety of manufacturers and see which you prefer - Gunze or PollyScale make great acrylics and Humbrol is the king of enamels. Testors Model Master stuff is great but if you just aren't getting that shade to look how you want try a different manufacturer and maybe you'll find the match that looks good to your eye. Squadron.com should be able to ship you whatever you need.
Tue Jun 13, 2006 2:53 pm
Doh! Looks like Chad beat me to the punch as I was typing my response when he posted. Sorry for the duplicated information.
Chad uses the ANA # system, which was the older system used to identify US military surplus materials but which didn't pertain specifically to paints. The FS system was adopted later on as it identifies the paint's sheen, color and intensity.
Chad uses the ANA # system, which was the older system used to identify US military surplus materials but which didn't pertain specifically to paints. The FS system was adopted later on as it identifies the paint's sheen, color and intensity.
Tue Jun 13, 2006 3:54 pm
The model may be, but the full size airplane is not glossy.Glyn wrote:"MARINE'S DREAM" appears to me to be painted in all glossy paint, which would be incorrect even if the tint of the color is correct.
Tue Jun 13, 2006 4:19 pm
It's a real car, not a model. I just bought the model paint cause it was the only source that I knew of that "should" be accurate, and inexpensive to spray test panels.
So Non Spec Blue and Dark Sea blue and Glossy Sea Blue are supposed to all be the same color, just varying degrees of sheen, correct?
If Marine's Dream top color is not perceived to be 100% the same color (not sheen) as the Super Corsair above (and it looks more blue to me than the Super Corsair), then is it close enough to be considered an acceptable variance within required color specifications?
I hate to be such a pain in the ass, but the whole concept of the car is based on a returning vet using surplus parts on the car, including paint. And as a graphic designer, I work with color alot, so naturally, if it is not right, it is going to bother me.
So Non Spec Blue and Dark Sea blue and Glossy Sea Blue are supposed to all be the same color, just varying degrees of sheen, correct?
If Marine's Dream top color is not perceived to be 100% the same color (not sheen) as the Super Corsair above (and it looks more blue to me than the Super Corsair), then is it close enough to be considered an acceptable variance within required color specifications?
I hate to be such a pain in the ass, but the whole concept of the car is based on a returning vet using surplus parts on the car, including paint. And as a graphic designer, I work with color alot, so naturally, if it is not right, it is going to bother me.
Tue Jun 13, 2006 8:44 pm
Django wrote:If Marine's Dream top color is not perceived to be 100% the same color (not sheen) as the Super Corsair above (and it looks more blue to me than the Super Corsair), then is it close enough to be considered an acceptable variance within required color specifications?
The FS numbers seem to indicate that Non-Specular Sea Blue and Glossy Sea Blue are the same except for the sheen but it sure does not look like it to me.
Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:06 am
I agree Chad. That's my dilemma!
Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:10 am
Django wrote:I agree Chad. That's my dilemma!
Sorry Django, that last post of mine was a bit useless! Just wanted you to know I understood what you were saying. I have a few other sources I am going to check into and you'll be the first to know what comes of it.