Tue May 30, 2006 11:53 pm
I agree. Send it back. What a bunch of dopes!JBoyle wrote:Some of our English allies on another message board seem to be against the recovery...saying it smacks of "Cultural Imperialism".
Let's see if PNG turns down the money held in escrow. Bet that'll never happen!
That's where the B.S. will walk.
Wed May 31, 2006 12:46 am
I wonder if those same waggling English tounges would say the same if, say, a Spit or Hurry once flown by Doug Bader or similar person of note was found rotting in a refuse heap in Bangladesh.
Would they let it rot, as certainly it's of historical significance to the Bangladeshies even though it's in a garbage dump. Or rescue it, and restore it for an appreciative public to see in it's country of origin.
Would they let it rot, as certainly it's of historical significance to the Bangladeshies even though it's in a garbage dump. Or rescue it, and restore it for an appreciative public to see in it's country of origin.
Swamp Ghost
Wed May 31, 2006 2:22 am
It is tarting to look like Swamp Ghost has got as far as it was going to get.It will probably be sent back to the Museum.
Swamp Ghost
Wed May 31, 2006 3:57 am
Hey Mick, want to give odds on that?
As far as Rob G. and the HARS team (Swamp Rats), it should read a "team of engineers who are members of the HARS".
These guys were hand picked for their skills and mental/physical abilities to cope with an extremely inhospitable environment.
It was a real last minute thing and everybody went as an unpaid volounteer. Contrary to what you read in the media beat ups, the landowners were in full cooperation.
Some really strong bonds developed between the locals and vistors. Over and above the the huge pile of equipmnt left behind for the people, a rice milling machine, school supplies, medicines and a eye operation for a little girl out there going blind were also funded out of the teams own pockets.
edited by Scott WRG Editor
As far as Rob G. and the HARS team (Swamp Rats), it should read a "team of engineers who are members of the HARS".
These guys were hand picked for their skills and mental/physical abilities to cope with an extremely inhospitable environment.
It was a real last minute thing and everybody went as an unpaid volounteer. Contrary to what you read in the media beat ups, the landowners were in full cooperation.
Some really strong bonds developed between the locals and vistors. Over and above the the huge pile of equipmnt left behind for the people, a rice milling machine, school supplies, medicines and a eye operation for a little girl out there going blind were also funded out of the teams own pockets.
edited by Scott WRG Editor
Wed May 31, 2006 4:05 am
Hi Jungle Bob
Thanks for clearing that up - well done on all of this - a real hard ask
That on top of all the other kit that has been left behind before on previous visits
Hope it is all over soon
Regards
John P
Thanks for clearing that up - well done on all of this - a real hard ask
That on top of all the other kit that has been left behind before on previous visits
Hope it is all over soon
Regards
John P
Wed May 31, 2006 12:52 pm
J Boyle - Thought I would post a reply from the 'Empire' in response to your comments. It's perfectly valid to question the recovery of 'Swamp Ghost' . There is no shortage of B-17's in the U.S - indeed I believe a 'G'
model is still being used at a Gas station as a rain cover. Possibly the rarest of them 'Swoose' has been in storage for many years and doen't seem likely to see the light of day for a long time.
In comparison 'Swamp Ghost' did very little flying in the U.S before going to PNG. She is the most intact example in that theatre and richly deserves to be in that country. The reason that she as been left there so long was because of her inaccessibility - the fact that B-17's have spiralled in value has to be a motivation in her recovery coupled with a documentary which will follow on from that.
If she does get restored to fly - she will loose a large amount of her originality and will cease to be an artifact. Many will bemoan the fact that she was sat in a swamp for so many years - however the reality is that if she had survived her operational career down there chances are that she would have been ferried home and scrapped alongside thousands of others. I think it's a case that some time spent examining the amount of heritage lost in the U.S post WWII and in various crashes when the Flying Fortress should really have been retired to a life away from fire bombing
show that the U.S squandered numerous chances to preserve very important B-17's.
model is still being used at a Gas station as a rain cover. Possibly the rarest of them 'Swoose' has been in storage for many years and doen't seem likely to see the light of day for a long time.
In comparison 'Swamp Ghost' did very little flying in the U.S before going to PNG. She is the most intact example in that theatre and richly deserves to be in that country. The reason that she as been left there so long was because of her inaccessibility - the fact that B-17's have spiralled in value has to be a motivation in her recovery coupled with a documentary which will follow on from that.
If she does get restored to fly - she will loose a large amount of her originality and will cease to be an artifact. Many will bemoan the fact that she was sat in a swamp for so many years - however the reality is that if she had survived her operational career down there chances are that she would have been ferried home and scrapped alongside thousands of others. I think it's a case that some time spent examining the amount of heritage lost in the U.S post WWII and in various crashes when the Flying Fortress should really have been retired to a life away from fire bombing
show that the U.S squandered numerous chances to preserve very important B-17's.
Last edited by David J Burke on Wed May 31, 2006 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Wed May 31, 2006 1:14 pm
David J Burke wrote:J Boyle - Thought I would post a reply from the 'Empire' in response to your comments. It's perfectly valid to question the recovery of 'Swamp Ghost' . There is no shortage of B-17's in the U.S - indeed I believe a 'G'
model is still being used at a Gas station as a rain cover. Possibly the rarest of them 'Swoose' has been instorage for many years and doen't seem likely to see the light of day for a long time.
In comparison 'Swamp Ghost' did very little flying in the U.S before going to PNG. She is the most intact example in that theatre and richly deserves to be in that country. The reason that she as been left there so long was becasue of the inaccesibility of her - the fact that B-17's have spiralled in value has to be a motivation in her rcovery coupled with a documentary which will follow on from that.
If she does get restored to fly - she will loose a large amount of her originality and will cease to be an artifact. Many will bemoan the fact that she was sat in a swamp for so many years - however the reality is that if she had survived her operational career down there chances are that she would have been ferried home and scrapped alongside thousands of others. I think it's a case that some time spent examining the amount of heritage lost in the U.S post war might make the people of PNG somewhat more caring.
Wed May 31, 2006 6:06 pm
David
Don't take this as a pop at you but your post seems to lack a little logic in a number of areas and it would be good if you could clarify your intention
[/quote]J Boyle - Thought I would post a reply from the 'Empire' in response to your comments. It's perfectly valid to question the recovery of 'Swamp Ghost' . There is no shortage of B-17's in the U.S - indeed I believe a 'G'
model is still being used at a Gas station as a rain cover. Possibly the rarest of them 'Swoose' has been instorage for many years and doen't seem likely to see the light of day for a long time.[quote]
There is nothing wrong with recovering all these aircraft even if they do go into storage for later generations to work with - if it stays in the swamp it will a) be scrapped slowly and b) Rot into the swamp through corrosion
It will only "be in that country " until natural/human events destroy it which in this case won't have been long.
She was not inaccessable just difficult but thousands had visited her - a lot of vandalism had also been performed as a result. Countless helicopters landing on the wings wouldn't have helped either
If there is no shortage of B17s in the USA then why is it their price spirialled up - clearly there is a demand otherwise it wouldn't have been done, moreover I think it was also recovered for historical reasons.
When B17s were fire bombers they weren't collectable - it was through the firebombing that some survived not in spite of it otherwise they would have been discarded and scrapped.
kind regards
John p
Don't take this as a pop at you but your post seems to lack a little logic in a number of areas and it would be good if you could clarify your intention
[/quote]J Boyle - Thought I would post a reply from the 'Empire' in response to your comments. It's perfectly valid to question the recovery of 'Swamp Ghost' . There is no shortage of B-17's in the U.S - indeed I believe a 'G'
model is still being used at a Gas station as a rain cover. Possibly the rarest of them 'Swoose' has been instorage for many years and doen't seem likely to see the light of day for a long time.[quote]
There is nothing wrong with recovering all these aircraft even if they do go into storage for later generations to work with - if it stays in the swamp it will a) be scrapped slowly and b) Rot into the swamp through corrosion
It will only "be in that country " until natural/human events destroy it which in this case won't have been long.
She was not inaccessable just difficult but thousands had visited her - a lot of vandalism had also been performed as a result. Countless helicopters landing on the wings wouldn't have helped either
If there is no shortage of B17s in the USA then why is it their price spirialled up - clearly there is a demand otherwise it wouldn't have been done, moreover I think it was also recovered for historical reasons.
When B17s were fire bombers they weren't collectable - it was through the firebombing that some survived not in spite of it otherwise they would have been discarded and scrapped.
kind regards
John p
Wed May 31, 2006 8:58 pm
DB....B-17 prices are hardly motivation, attempts have been made since the mid seventies to recover SG when the type was still abundant in fire bomber service and worth little. If this year was the first attempt there would certainly be something in that argument otherwise.
And some better news from the 'front'....one step in the right direction in anycase
http://www.thenational.com.pg/060106/nation17.htm
Dave
And some better news from the 'front'....one step in the right direction in anycase
http://www.thenational.com.pg/060106/nation17.htm
Dave
SG
Wed May 31, 2006 9:04 pm
It all sounds nice but aparently the PM is intrested that nothing further is removed from his country.
This could take a while.
This could take a while.
Wed May 31, 2006 10:41 pm
If I recall correctly, the Indian Government is still up in arms about a certain Bf-109 that was spirited out of their country and back to the UK not long ago. I haven't heard much of an uproar about that little jewel being added to the English roster. Are the questionable recoveries of foreign relics by UK citizens up for discussion as well, or is this just another chance to take an opportunistic jab at "Empire America"? 
Are the questionable recoveries of foreign relics by UK citizens up for discussion as well, or is this just another chance to take an opportunistic jab at "Empire America"?
Wed May 31, 2006 10:47 pm
scott, this thread is bound to set a mileage record!!!! am i right???
Wed May 31, 2006 11:02 pm
tom d. friedman wrote:scott, this thread is bound to set a mileage record!!!! am i right???
It is if you posting empty posts like that.
Just Kidding Tom
Congratulations are in orders. Jungle Bob Just confirmed that eveything is all cleared up and Swamp Ghost is on her way home.
Shay
____________
Semper Fortis
Wed May 31, 2006 11:13 pm
Now to stake out a certain hanger at Long Beach airport!
Wed May 31, 2006 11:36 pm
Rob Mears wrote:If I recall correctly, the Indian Government is still up in arms about a certain Bf-109 that was spirited out of their country and back to the UK not long ago. I haven't heard much of an uproar about that little jewel being added to the English roster.
You've not been looking hard enough then.
That went quiet because it got legal. 'No comment'.