Mig-23 Down, Thunder Over Michigan, both pilots O.K.

[marine air]

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[mike furline]

Excellent article about Jim Wright and the Hughes H-1 replica. I haven't read the final NTSB report but would like to add from my memory. First of all, Jimmy Leeward flying his P-51 there to fly chase and help out isn't a surprise. He really was , maybe the nicest guy in sport aviation. Second, the word at the time as told to my dad, an EAA board member and relayed by EAA founder Paul Poberezny, was that he was "scud running" trying to get the airplane home.
The airplane had an ultrarare Pratt & Whitney R-1535 double row Wasp. Who knows what those sound like in the air? With only a couple of those engines in existence, how were they able to rebuild it and maintain it? Where did they find a propellor to go with the design? NO doubt Hughes had the prop designed and custom built for the airplane. The weather was bad at the time of the accident.
I remember at the time that Art Vance, JR. crashed the POF's Hellcat scud running it was incredulous that a person of his extreme ability and aviation career could go down that way. A friend, now a retired Major General of the USAF, told me he almost went down scud running. He had a small civilian plane and was so hyper focused on getting home that he ignored the VFR rules. He continued on, getting lower and lower. Eventually he said he realized he was following cars on the interstate just above their roofs and below the trees. He said it wasn't the first time but it was his last.
Mr. Wright was well liked and he may or may not have had engine or prop problems to go with the accident on that IFR day.

http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=m ... 9275101303

At 1746, the weather conditions at West Yellowstone Airport (elevation 6,644 feet), West Yellowstone, Montana, 320 degrees, 18 nautical miles (nm) from the accident site, were as follows: wind 160 degrees at 8 knots; visibility 20 statute miles; cloud condition 4,000 feet broken; temperature 72 degrees Fahrenheit; dew point 48 degrees Fahrenheit; altimeter setting 30.26. The density altitude at the accident site was calculated to be 9,477 feet.

Additional impact signatures were identified on the propeller's shim plates. Hamilton Sundstrand examined the shim plates, and determined that there was an angular difference between the two blades, at the time of impact, of approximately 10 degrees. The lead mechanic said that one blade was at the low blade angle of 24 degrees, the measured angular difference of 10 degrees, would indicate that the other blade was at an angle of 34 degrees. The agreement between this derived blade angle of 34 degrees and the piston position of 34.9 degrees suggests that one blade was still slaved to it's counterweight at the time of impact and one blade was not.

[Xray]

It is well documented and accepted that he could have bailed and saved himself if his own pick butt was his only consideration. He chose to stay with it to guide it away from civilians on the ground. He succeeded and it cost him his life, have no idea why you are being so snippy and condescending over heroic actions like this, other than it puts a cramp on your [false] projection that pilots never, ever stay with an aircraft to avoid killing others on the ground.

Just because you don't bail out doesn't mean you are being heroic with regard to civilians. Trying to bring a disabled aircraft to a safe landing is a very, very strong urge for experienced pilots. In the back of your mind, you know that if you "save" the plane, you think you are more likely to save yourself and maybe those on the ground, but it's your own hide that is first in line. I've put a plane with a seized engine in a field before, and your focus is entirely on flying the plane to the point of least lethal impact. It doesn't add to these men's heroism to invoke simple, unprovable conjecture that they were thinking first of civilians, nor does it detract from their humanity to accept that they were engaging in a logical effort to survive.

No doubt everyone wants to survive, some don't latch on to that regardless of the cost to others though, military history especially is replete with examples of this.
In Dyess's case, one of the persons saved by his actions wrote a thank you note to his mother, thats good enough for me, but for you apparently, he was simply trying to save his own ass and its just a coincidence that in the process of this, others were saved. Whatever.

The reality is that the faster, heavier, hotter the plane, the less likely it is that riding it in will save anyone, including the pilot... unless you have a runway of sufficient length, adequate gliding distance, and control of the aircraft.

Obviously - I take it by "runway" you mean an improvised landing area, if an aircraft can make it to a runway dead stick then none of this is in play

[marine air]

Thanks for the link and NTSB information. I hate posting scuttlebutt from the flightline because too often someone was trying to impress others or appear to have the inside scoop. I've deleted some of my earlier posting. One question is "did he have the long wing cross country wings or the shortened close circuit wings installed?" Also, he was still very low time in the airplane and the airplane. an experimental homebuilt was also very low time. Thought he had hundreds of hours i type.
So, trying to see what else had the R-1535, The Vought Vindicator also had that engine with a very long, 11' two bladed propellor. What would be a better propellor blade alternative? What about two of those long toothpck type blades like on a Lockheed Hudson? IF someone were building another replica, what would be the best choice for props?

[RyanShort1]

No doubt everyone wants to survive, some don't latch on to that regardless of the cost to others though, military history especially is replete with examples of this.
In Dyess's case, one of the persons saved by his actions wrote a thank you note to his mother, thats good enough for me, but for you apparently, he was simply trying to save his own ass and its just a coincidence that in the process of this, others were saved. Whatever.

Where the belief is justified by facts in evidence, pilots who self-sacrifice are absolutely deserving of regard. I'm all for that. What I think you miss, is that I was saying that where there is no immediate evidence of such, it does not make things better to follow the advice of "The Man Who Shot Liberty Vallance" - "When the legend becomes fact, print the legend." I don't believe in making mythical heroes just because.

The reality is that the faster, heavier, hotter the plane, the less likely it is that riding it in will save anyone, including the pilot... unless you have a runway of sufficient length, adequate gliding distance, and control of the aircraft.

Obviously - I take it by "runway" you mean an improvised landing area, if an aircraft can make it to a runway dead stick then none of this is in play

No, I meant what I said. The more mass, speed, inertia a plane has, the less likely even an improvised landing spot will really do you any good, especially if any of your flight controls are impaired. Even in an open desert, you're gonna see some serious damage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W--dC5kuQ8Q