Petition to save 9/11 F-15

[Randy Haskin]

Okay, I was using a bit of hyperbole when I said "it doesn't cost anything...".

What I meant was that Rick wouldn't have to get another Act of Congress to get it into a Museum somewhere. It's not like they're out there scrapping F-15s daily and if you don't act now, it's going to end up a soda can by the end of the year.

I didn't mean literally that it would cost zero dollars.

[Trey Carroll]

Everybody says the Interceptors won't shoot an airliner down because of the amount of passengers on board, what would you rather see, 400 some dead or thousands dead, the fact of the matter is that when $hit hits the fan someone's going to die, its harsh but thats the way it is.

Enough about that, if the jet is at AMARC in Tuscon, send it across the street to Pima Air and Space Museum, that cant be bad in a financial aspect.

TC

[T J Johansen]

Everybody says the Interceptors won't shoot an airliner down because of the amount of passengers on board, what would you rather see, 400 some dead or thousands dead, the fact of the matter is that when $hit hits the fan someone's going to die, its harsh but thats the way it is.

Bold statement until you're the actual guy in the cockpit with your finger on the trigger!

T J

[systemofadown1162]

Everybody says the Interceptors won't shoot an airliner down because of the amount of passengers on board, what would you rather see, 400 some dead or thousands dead, the fact of the matter is that when $hit hits the fan someone's going to die, its harsh but thats the way it is.

Bold statement until you're the actual guy in the cockpit with your finger on the trigger!

T J

And thats why they have guys up there that wont hesitate when thinking about that.

[mrhenniger]

Everybody says the Interceptors won't shoot an airliner down because of the amount of passengers on board, what would you rather see, 400 some dead or thousands dead, the fact of the matter is that when $hit hits the fan someone's going to die, its harsh but thats the way it is.

Bold statement until you're the actual guy in the cockpit with your finger on the trigger!

T J

Maybe... well very likely. I don't think I would want that responsibility, but I would think when you sign up for the job you must realize you just might be faced with that kind of decision. It might be a cold way to look at it, but when you may be looking at 400 in the plane and 2000 potential souls in the building, bringing the numbers down to 400 from 2400 is a real option. Still it would be hard to press the button.

Just rambling I guess. My hat is off to anyone in the military faced with that kind of decision.

Mike

[tom d. friedman]

as a nation we were caught with our pants down...... period. no reflection on this f-15 air group where the motive to preserve this f-15 originates. it participated in history, just as some birds from pearl harbor were preserved for the same memory. no matter what the failure or who's to blame, it is a tribute to the effort to what was tried to defend..... our honor, our country & it's way of life.

[Sabremech]

How about preserving a Combat vet F-15 like the one I crewed in Desert Storm. 85105 with a confirmed Mig 25 kill or others with 3 or more kills. Certainly it holds more to the historical significance of our current conflict and might be a better representative to tell our grandkids about. I just can't come up with a good story to tell my grandson about the F-15 in question here.
David

[Randy Haskin]

Everybody says the Interceptors won't shoot an airliner down because of the amount of passengers on board, what would you rather see, 400 some dead or thousands dead, the fact of the matter is that when $hit hits the fan someone's going to die, its harsh but thats the way it is.

The problem here is that we never have the wisdom of hindsight. When do you make that decision that the 300 lives on the airliner are all ready lost? You can't assume that every hijacked airplane which is not responding to interceptor radio and visual signals is going to crash into an important government or civil building.

And thats why they have guys up there that wont hesitate when thinking about that.

I have all ready taken lives in anger...I don't have an emotional or moral problem killing enemy combatants. Killing 300 innocents is a completely different ballgame. Most of the guys I fly with certainly would follow orders if that's what had to be done, but I think that "won't hesitate" is overstating it a bit.

[systemofadown1162]

And thats why they have guys up there that wont hesitate when thinking about that.

I have all ready taken lives in anger...I don't have an emotional or moral problem killing enemy combatants. Killing 300 innocents is a completely different ballgame. Most of the guys I fly with certainly would follow orders if that's what had to be done, but I think that "won't hesitate" is overstating it a bit.

Matbe a little, but if they do hesitate it could be a live or death decision. Im not talking bout bringing down an airliner, it could be anything. If they cant make the decsion and fast they shouldnt be up there.

[Randy Haskin]

If they cant make the decsion and fast they shouldnt be up there.

Cheers. I'll take that into consideration.

[Scott Rose]

just my 2 cents. I think a memorial park devoted to 9/11 would benefit from having one of the responding F-15's on a pole to help illustrate the life or death situation that Air Force was luckily not forced to make. The consideration of downing airliners is sobering and indicative of the madness that day brought to the world.

However, outside of that venue, say an aviation museum, I would not necessarily consider the particular aircraft of note. All the F-15's that have been in service hold as much potential as those that flew over New York that day. For a non-9/11 museum I think one of the combat-vet F-15's would be more approriate.

Just my opinion.

[Raven]

How about preserving a Combat vet F-15 like the one I crewed in Desert Storm. 85105 with a confirmed Mig 25 kill or others with 3 or more kills. Certainly it holds more to the historical significance of our current conflict and might be a better representative to tell our grandkids about. I just can't come up with a good story to tell my grandson about the F-15 in question here.

If all the history you teach your grandkids is about 'pants up' periods, then you'll spiral into national-overconfidence; much valuable history is from when you are caught with the pants down.

History isn't a comfortable list of achievements - if it looks like it, you are leaving a lot out.

[Sabremech]

For history sake, it would be more appropriate to put on public display an F-15 from Langley AFB 48FIS who flew alert duty against Russain bombers for years than this F-15 that flew an intercept too late. One memorial is enough for us not to forget and New York Ground Zero is the best place. Any F-15 can portray what this post is about. I see nothing special in this one.

David
Previous F-15 Keeper

[oscardeuce]

I have to agree with Scippy & Mudge on this topic. It would be different if the F-15's actually did something during the attacks.

Then let me be the Devil for a second. Using the above logic, next time you go to an airshow. Get rid of all the Warbirds that did not serve in combat, and never fired a round in anger. That would leave a very empty ramp. you'd be lucky to have 1 airplane left of the group. How many of the planes at ToM were combat veterans? Be kind of loney out there.

If you will save an aircraft for a musum, why not choose one with a story. In this case, instead of one of many F-15's choose the 9/11, or any one with a story or combat history.

[Trey Carroll]

Wow, this got out of hand fast

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

systemofadown1162 wrote:
If they cant make the decsion and fast they shouldnt be up there

I'm sure the thought of all the lives about to be lost would go throught everyone's mind.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

systemofadown1162 wrote:
If they cant make the decsion and fast they shouldnt be up there

I'm not try'n to be a prick but wouldn't there be a point where you would understand what is going on and what the aircraft's intention's are? I think there would be a certain point where it seems like one would realize what is about to happen?

Like I said, not try'n to a pain in the butt Hacker

TC