F-89 lost chasing UFO discovered?

[John-Curtiss Paul]

Maybe because the POD people were really flying it.

[T33driver]

This is first and foremost an unsolved USAF aircraft crash and maybe an underwater tomb. If it were my relative that perished with the aircraft, I'd want gov't officials present to oversee any treasure hunters regardless if they're legitimate. By the way, aircraft was serial number 51-15853A, Northrop F-89C-35-NO.

[Shay]

I haven't read anything saying that the families of the two crew members had been made aware of these recent events (please correct me if I'm mistaken). Perhaps if they were to be notified, they might be able to pressure the USAF and DPMO to take action.

I think the biggest effort that needs to happen is to keep this story up front in the news and make it as big and public as possible.

Shay
____________
Semper Fortis

[airnutz]

Looks like GLDC is abandoning the F-89 search due to Canadian Government involvement.

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=12954

Shay
____________
Semper Fortis

That's curious, I wonder why they didn't let a Canadian official ride along
as requested. If the men are still in the F-89, as appears is the case, then
the goverment was going to be involved sooner or later. I'll hazard a guess that the
GLDC didn't want to have their time wasted by the Canadians seizing the
recordings as the officials start officiating with the US government. I could
also see, understandably so, if the men were filmed in the aircraft and the
images were somehow posted on the internet..the officials would want to
prevent such a thing.

Looks like it's up to the gubments now...sure would have liked to have seen
some better photos of the F-89 though.

[Shay]

From what I read. Canada said no ROV'ing until GLDC gave them the coordinates of the wrecksite. GDLC said they have another vested interest in Canadian waters, a treasure ship. So they don't want to rock the boat, so to speak.

Shay
____________
Semper Fortis

[airnutz]

From what I read. Canada said no ROV'ing until GLDC gave them the coordinates of the wrecksite. GDLC said they have another vested interest in Canadian waters, a treasure ship. So they don't want to rock the boat, so to speak.

Shay
____________
Semper Fortis

Yep, I read that too Shay. I don't see what one has to do with the other. With
flightcrew on board the F-89 the situation becomes an official matter, whereupon
the proper people would be called in for recovery. You'd think GLDC
would be happy to aid the officials by supplying the coordinates. I don't
see how that would affect their later treasure hunting activities. In fact
one would think it would put GLDC in tighter with the officials...unless I'm
missing some kind of implied point you're aware of?

[Shay]

The impression I got from GLDC's statement was that they didn't want to jepordize their ability to recover any potnetial valuables from the treasure ship by burning their bridges with the Canadian Government. Because they didn't give them the coordinates or allow a representative to come aboard, which I imagine would be doing the same thing as giving them the coordinates. In that respect, if that is the case, it's pretty sad that recovering our lost military members takes a back seat to people possibly filling their pockets with money. And again I state "if that is the case"

Shay
____________
Semper Fortis

[Mike Schneider]

<raises Eyebrow>

fascinating...

[Shay]

This story just keeps getting weirder

Just released today by GLDC (Aug-07-06)

http://www.ufodigest.com/news/0906/kinrossobject.html


Shay
____________
Semper Fortis

[Ollie]

Creepy...

[TimAPNY]

So the Canadian Government is really Aliens trying to recover their lost mother ship That explains so much!

Tim

[Larry Kraus]

In response to the question on ditching procedures in the F-89 posted by JBoyle...

The T.O. 1F-89D-1 states the following:

DITCHING

This airplane should never be ditched if there is sufficient altitude for ejecting safely.Ditching is not recommended because it is assumed that the engine air intake ducts will cause the airplane to dive violently when it hits the water.However,if altitude is insufficient for ejecting,warn radar observer,then proceed as follows:

1.Tip tank fuel-dump. (P)

CAUTION

Empty tip tanks do not contact the water until the airplane comes to rest;then they afford additional buoyancy.If the tip tanks contain fuel on ditching,they may plane through the water and create serious deceleration loads.

2.IFF master control knob-EMERGENCY-(P)

3.Canopy-Jettison with "T" handle.(P)

4.Inertia reel lock lever-LOCK.(P-RO)

5.Landing gear lever-UP.(P)

6.Safety belt-Tighten.(P-RO)

7.Wing flap lever-DOWN.(P)

8.Emergency flight control switch-ON.(P)

9.Throttles-CLOSED.(P)

10.Engine fire selector switches for both engines-Raise guards and actuate-(P)

11.Select a heading parallel to the wave crest if possible.Try to touch down along the wave rest or just after the crest passes.(P)

12.Make normal approach.(P)

13.Flare out to landing attitude,keeping the nose high.(P)

14.Generator switches-OFF just before contact.(P)

15.Battery switch-OFF just before contact.(P)

WARNING

Do not attempt to ditch in a near level attitude.It is assumed that the airplane will dive violently when the intake ducts hit the water.

[mennie]

Hmm... investigating the documents...

Looking at the Informal Report of Accident - Form 14 from the Kinross Incident website it says:

6. The unknown aircraft being intercepted was a Royal Canadian Air Force Dakota (C-47), Serial No. VC-912, flying from Winnipeg to Sudberry, Canada. At the time of interception it was crossing Northern Lake Superior from west to east at 7,000 feet. This flight path was approximately 30 miles south of the intended flight path. The pilot stated that he was on top of a 5,000 foot undercast and at the approximate time of interception he was flying in the clear and visibility was unlimited. He also stated he did not know he was being intercepted and that he did not see the F-86.

7. Weather conditions during the period of the interceptor's flight were marginal and apparently deteriorated immediately after the time of interception. The Canadian pilot of the aircraft being intercepted stated that, although he was in the clear at the time of the interception, just prior to this he had been flying in instrument conditions. Other pilots who took off to search for the missing F-89 reported various weather conditions but an analysis of all reports indicates definite instrument conditions with snow showers in and around the Lake Superior area. Hime icing had been forecast for this area and was also reported throughout this general area.

From the Statement by Lt. Stuart, controller at "Pillow" GCI, page 2:

...
About this point, Avenger Red was informed that he might encounter icing conditions on the descent to the bogey's altitude, such information having been received from Horsefly. This transmission was acknowledged by Avenger Red, who then asked for "Pigeons to Home Plate". Pigeons to Kinross were given as 150 - 125 miles, which was acknowledged by the pilot.
At approximately 2351Z Avenger Red was given a Starboard turn to 020 deg., which was the cutoff vector. About 2352Z Avenger Red was informed that the bogey was at 11:00-10 miles which was acknowledged by the pilot. Another clock and range report was given, allong with the information that the boey was passing from port to starboard, but no acknowledgement was received for either transmission. Just before the target merged on the PPI Scope, Avenger Red was informed that he would be set up for another pass on the bogey if he had not received contact. When no answer was received from Avenger Red, it was believed that his Radar Observer had established contact with the bogey on his weapon and had taken over the intercept. Had such been the case, the Radar Observer would likely have been keeping the pilot very busy -- too busy to acknowledge my transmissions. Thus, when there was no seperation of targets on the PPI Scope after the fighter had merged with the bogey, it was assumed for a couple of minutes that Avenger Red was flying formation with the bogey. Every few seconds, however, an attempt was made to contact Avenger Red. When no contact could be established, Naples was contacted and advised to try contacting Avenger Red. Napled efforts to contact the fighter were unsuccessful also.

Page 3

Shortly after the two blips merged on the PPI Scope, the IFF return dissapeared. It should be noted also that the fighter had been painting a radar return on the scope in addition to the IFF return. Thus, it is strange that no radar return on the fighter was picked up after the merger, had the IFF suddenly bevome inoperative.
...

from the Statement by Lt. Mingenbach (Avenger Black):

...
Kinross weather forecast moderate to heavy icing and snow showers for the local area, and since I was not sure that my anti icing system was operative, and did not have retractible engine screens, I hestitated to letdown into icing conditions that perhaps had given trouble to Avenger Red.
...

from http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=12954:

According to reports, after the two objects came together, only one object, the original rogue object remained and it appeared not be affected as it continued on its original course and speed.
...

The accident happened around 7pm EST and sunset at Kinross that day was at 5pm EST.

Sorry about the long read but to me these are the facts and they say nothing about a flying saucer... only about bad weather. Still I hope the site will be investigated and the crew given a proper burial. To my opinion the Canadian Government should be involved since there could still be armed weapons at the site.

Last edited by mennie on Thu Sep 07, 2006 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[mennie]

Serial was 51-5853A (T33driver said 51-15853A, I guess that was a typo).

[mennie]

Gotta love Google
[url=http://www.cufon.org/kinross/Kinross_acc_rept.htm]KINROSS AFB MISSING F-89C - 23 NOV 1953
USAF REPORT OF AIRCRAFT ACCIDENT[/url]