Wed Oct 25, 2006 5:25 pm
Here's the scoop from an anonymous little birdie....
The PBY has NOT been scrapped yet and the title has not been handed over to anyone at this time. There are efforts underway to salvage the aircraft and move it to a new location. I will keep you updated when I get information.
The PBY has NOT been scrapped yet and the title has not been handed over to anyone at this time. There are efforts underway to salvage the aircraft and move it to a new location. I will keep you updated when I get information.
Wed Oct 25, 2006 5:35 pm
WOOT!
That is good news.
Thanks.
Z
That is good news.
Thanks.
Z
Wed Oct 25, 2006 5:58 pm
Scott WRG Editor wrote:Here's the scoop from an anonymous little birdie....
The PBY has NOT been scrapped yet and the title has not been handed over to anyone at this time. There are efforts underway to salvage the aircraft and move it to a new location. I will keep you updated when I get information.
Oh thank god....I called and left my uncle a message.....with the bad news and now I can tell him something good. We've gotta save this airplane.
JH
Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:17 pm
Awesome news
Can someone please tell me that this picture is the result of the wing being taken off properly and not the result of someone doing it with a chain saw?
Shay
____________
Semper Fortis
Can someone please tell me that this picture is the result of the wing being taken off properly and not the result of someone doing it with a chain saw?
Shay
____________
Semper Fortis
Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:22 pm
Django wrote:CAF washed their hands of the title and approved it being scrapped.
WTF? How can ANY warbird scrapping be justified in this day and age, especially when people are falling over themselves to pull complete JUNK out of some jungle, and this one is relatively intact.
I'll say it again. WTF???
I echo your sentiments, truly disturbing.
Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:02 pm
I can't believe that anyone would even consider getting rid of this. 
???
Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:10 pm
Here's my question from the other side of the fence.
This a/c was abandoned when the CAF moved out years ago.
Why the outrage now??? Why hasn't someone "rescued" it years ago?
Not defending the CAF by any means just curious about the crying now after years of non-action by amyone?? Flame suit on.
This a/c was abandoned when the CAF moved out years ago.
Why the outrage now??? Why hasn't someone "rescued" it years ago?
Not defending the CAF by any means just curious about the crying now after years of non-action by amyone?? Flame suit on.
Re: ???
Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:33 pm
Jack Cook wrote:Here's my question from the other side of the fence.
This a/c was abandoned when the CAF moved out years ago.
Why the outrage now??? Why hasn't someone "rescued" it years ago?
I for one was unaware the CAF even had this PBY. The only CAF PBYs I was aware of are the two that the Minnesota Wings has.
Re: ???
Thu Oct 26, 2006 1:51 am
dj51d wrote:Jack Cook wrote:Here's my question from the other side of the fence.
This a/c was abandoned when the CAF moved out years ago.
Why the outrage now??? Why hasn't someone "rescued" it years ago?
I for one was unaware the CAF even had this PBY. The only CAF PBYs I was aware of are the two that the Minnesota Wings has.
Dunno if it was abandoned, or stored there. The wing ..and presumably other bits, went to
repair the Minnesota bird that was damaged by a storm in 1998...according
to this Dubbo Catalina thread...
www.warbirdz.net/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f ... 284497d724
Same page, check out Oscar Duck's A-26 arrival pics on page 4&5...
Re: ???
Thu Oct 26, 2006 9:52 am
dj51d wrote:
I for one was unaware the CAF even had this PBY.
Ditto.
Thu Oct 26, 2006 10:34 am
Being equally disturbed over this news, yesterday I posed the question to a CAF staffer, “Did Staff vote on and authorize scrapping this airplane?” Here are edited excerpts from the response I was sent:
Begin>>> “Yes it is true, but you are only hearing half the story. Read on:
There was nothing left of this airplane. I looked at it 8 or 9 years ago and it was suffering from extensive corrosion damage then. My guess is that when it blew the engine 20 years ago the reason no one decided to fix it was because it was structurally unsound even at that point in time. After more than 20 years of Brownsville salt air, there was nothing left.
Ten years ago the MN Wing spent several days salvaging every useful part off that airplane they could find but unfortunately they did not come up with much that was truly worth saving. Time and elements had gotten the best of this machine.
The only purpose for this hulk would have been for a museum diorama and it was so picked over it would have required a ton of work and money to make it useful for that purpose
The airport where it was located demanded that it be removed. It was offered up but there was absolutely no interest from other groups or museums.” <<<End
My perspective on this sad turn of events:
Given this information, it seems to me CAF was in a no-win situation with no funding to move it, no interested buyers and an airport commission demanding its removal. The PBY’s fate was unfortunately sealed at that point.
Now before you start casting stones at the CAF (Some have already taken some pot shots), consider this, aren’t all of the groups who decided to pass up taking ownership of this airplane just as guilty of sealing it’s fate as the CAF? The problem is you cannot force somebody to spend their money on an object because YOU think it’s the right thing to do, even though it may be.
This is compounded when funding is tight. Given the dilapidated state of this aircraft it would have taken far more money to turn it into just a static display than was cost effective (the fact that there were no public takers proves this point). Sadly we cannot save every airplane we wish could be saved and that’s a reality driven by dollars and cents. Unfortunately as the size of the airplane increases and its state of repair continues to deteriorate, this statement becomes increasingly true. Equally as sad, the PBY does not enjoy the same fame and notoriety as other large WWII types placing it further behind the eight ball.
John
Begin>>> “Yes it is true, but you are only hearing half the story. Read on:
There was nothing left of this airplane. I looked at it 8 or 9 years ago and it was suffering from extensive corrosion damage then. My guess is that when it blew the engine 20 years ago the reason no one decided to fix it was because it was structurally unsound even at that point in time. After more than 20 years of Brownsville salt air, there was nothing left.
Ten years ago the MN Wing spent several days salvaging every useful part off that airplane they could find but unfortunately they did not come up with much that was truly worth saving. Time and elements had gotten the best of this machine.
The only purpose for this hulk would have been for a museum diorama and it was so picked over it would have required a ton of work and money to make it useful for that purpose
The airport where it was located demanded that it be removed. It was offered up but there was absolutely no interest from other groups or museums.” <<<End
My perspective on this sad turn of events:
Given this information, it seems to me CAF was in a no-win situation with no funding to move it, no interested buyers and an airport commission demanding its removal. The PBY’s fate was unfortunately sealed at that point.
Now before you start casting stones at the CAF (Some have already taken some pot shots), consider this, aren’t all of the groups who decided to pass up taking ownership of this airplane just as guilty of sealing it’s fate as the CAF? The problem is you cannot force somebody to spend their money on an object because YOU think it’s the right thing to do, even though it may be.
This is compounded when funding is tight. Given the dilapidated state of this aircraft it would have taken far more money to turn it into just a static display than was cost effective (the fact that there were no public takers proves this point). Sadly we cannot save every airplane we wish could be saved and that’s a reality driven by dollars and cents. Unfortunately as the size of the airplane increases and its state of repair continues to deteriorate, this statement becomes increasingly true. Equally as sad, the PBY does not enjoy the same fame and notoriety as other large WWII types placing it further behind the eight ball.
John
Thu Oct 26, 2006 10:43 am
John after reading your comments about the PBY, I am reminded that the B-23 seems to be suffering the same fate if nothing is done soon. It too is in the lesser known catagories of that era. At least I have fond memories of seeing both these machines on the ramp & flying back in the early Eighties. (them Aussies had some strong beer too) Guess that was the good ole days. Dang shame these machines age like we do. 
Robbie
Robbie
Thu Oct 26, 2006 11:43 am
I wonder who it was offered to and when? Looks like it would make a nice display sitting along a wall in a museum. Most museums don't allow visitors inside the aircraft anyhow.John Beyl wrote:It was offered up but there was absolutely no interest from other groups or museums.”
Might make a nice houseboat in any case...
pby
Thu Oct 26, 2006 1:06 pm
John, Thanks for saying what I was trying to put together. I inspected the PBY about 14 years ago and it was in horrible shape as far as corrosion and the storm damage was concerned.
As John said the CAF offered it to anyone that would take it. All useful parts (not much) was removed. The Airport was the biggest pusher in getting rid of it, from what I remember. It's easy to cast stones, but remember the CAF started this whole movement and has saved many aircraft through the years. The B-23 has been on the list of aircraft we are trying to save as a static at least. All it takes is money and time. You can join and or make donations through www.commemorativeairforce.org
As John said the CAF offered it to anyone that would take it. All useful parts (not much) was removed. The Airport was the biggest pusher in getting rid of it, from what I remember. It's easy to cast stones, but remember the CAF started this whole movement and has saved many aircraft through the years. The B-23 has been on the list of aircraft we are trying to save as a static at least. All it takes is money and time. You can join and or make donations through www.commemorativeairforce.org
Thu Oct 26, 2006 1:55 pm
Doug,
You’re quite welcome. I feel as bad about this aircrafts plight as anybody else does (Although the last chapter has not been written yet…scrapping is not inevitable). This is a very emotional issue for some (as can be witnessed by the remarks in this thread) but there are reasonable limits that have to be observed in any situation. We would all love to see every derelict saved, every static airplane made airworthy again but in the end it’s just not practical. I would guess the Pig Boat in question would take in excess of a million dollars to make it airworthy again. I’ve watched the uphill battle the Duluth detachment has been fighting just trying to get one of the CAF’s PBY’s back in the air and they are complete airframes. I don’t envy them their task to say the least.
Robbie,
In my estimation the B-23 is not in the same situation as the PBY in question is. The Dragon is in a secure, non-threatened location away from salt air. For those reasons alone it is better off. I also think it is a more marketable airplane because of its rarity. For that reason alone it stands out as a good candidate for a full restoration. You seem highly interested in this aircraft…why not try to do what you can to get it restored and back in the air? All it takes is motivation, drive and a whole lot of tenacity!!!!
John
You’re quite welcome. I feel as bad about this aircrafts plight as anybody else does (Although the last chapter has not been written yet…scrapping is not inevitable). This is a very emotional issue for some (as can be witnessed by the remarks in this thread) but there are reasonable limits that have to be observed in any situation. We would all love to see every derelict saved, every static airplane made airworthy again but in the end it’s just not practical. I would guess the Pig Boat in question would take in excess of a million dollars to make it airworthy again. I’ve watched the uphill battle the Duluth detachment has been fighting just trying to get one of the CAF’s PBY’s back in the air and they are complete airframes. I don’t envy them their task to say the least.
Robbie,
In my estimation the B-23 is not in the same situation as the PBY in question is. The Dragon is in a secure, non-threatened location away from salt air. For those reasons alone it is better off. I also think it is a more marketable airplane because of its rarity. For that reason alone it stands out as a good candidate for a full restoration. You seem highly interested in this aircraft…why not try to do what you can to get it restored and back in the air? All it takes is motivation, drive and a whole lot of tenacity!!!!
John