Warbird Information Exchange

All;

I'm seking detailed pictures of the belly of a B-24J. The area I'm most interested in viewing is from the ball turret back to the tail that include any position lights, etc.

I'm trying to match up pictures with B-24 wreckage we found near Yap Island this fall, however, I'm struggling to match a few pieces including piece at the following link that clearly shows an antenna mount or a position light mount with a square access panel: http://www.missingaircrew.com/trip/mount/yap1_151.jpg

Additional pictures of the B-24 wreckage located near Yap can be viewed at the following link:

B-24 Wreckage Located in Water Near Yap: Believed to be the Anthony B-24 crew from the 371st Bomb Squadron of the 307th Bomb Group. The Anthony crew was lost over Yap on August 10, 1944. http://www.missingaircrew.com/trip/american2/

Any help to identify the parts would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

-Pat

_________________
Patrick T. Ranfranz
Missing Air Crew Project & 307th Bomb Group Historian
www.MissingAirCrew.com & www.307bg.org
___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___

MACR #10023. My uncle, John R. McCullough, 307th Bomb Group, was shot down near Yap Island and declared MIA/KIA on 25 June 44

Re: Help to find position light locations on a B-24J

I’m now 100% positive that the mount in question is a “position light” and not a mount for an ADF football antenna. I was able to measure an ADF “football” antenna mount on a B-24 today at my local airport. In the same hanger they had some position lights that matched up exactly with the mount we found in Yap.

My new request for help: Does anyone have a diagram and/or pictures showing the location of “position lights” on B-24’s (J model if possible. Please post a reply or send me an email at pat@missingaircrew.com. I greatly appreciate everyone’s help.

-Pat

_________________
Patrick T. Ranfranz
Missing Air Crew Project & 307th Bomb Group Historian
www.MissingAirCrew.com & www.307bg.org
___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___

MACR #10023. My uncle, John R. McCullough, 307th Bomb Group, was shot down near Yap Island and declared MIA/KIA on 25 June 44

Hello Pat,

The mount you are trying to identify looks like the mount for the upward recognition light.

Most are familiar with the three downward recognition lights, red greed and amber, but there was an upward one as well. The upper light was a tear drop shaped clear light and matches the size and screw hole pattern in the photos on your web site.

The B-24J's upward recognition light was mounted on top of the fuselage over the wing.

I am trying to find a more detailed shot for you but all I have come across so far are these crude photos that I took from two different maintenance manuals. Look at number 9 in the first photo.





A similar mount is used on many different wartime aircraft. I believe that the standoff mount was used to give the upper light a better field of view.

I will keep looking for a photo of the actual mount. I would think that the Colling’s B-24J might still have the light and mount in place.

These lights are readily available today and you can even find them new in the box. I will gladly loan one to you if you need it to check the fit and hole pattern.

I hope this helps,

Taigh

_________________
To donate to the PV-2D project via PayPal click here http://www.twinbeech.com/84062restoration.htm

We brought her from: to this in 3 months: Help us get her all the way back

All donations are tax deductible as the Stockton Field Aviation Museum is a 501c3 nonprofit organization. Tell a friend as the Harpoon needs all the help she can get.

Thank you!

Taigh Ramey
Vintage Aircraft, Stockton, California
http://www.twinbeech.com
'KEEP ‘EM FLYING…FOR HISTORY!'

Hi Taigh;

Thank you for sharing the exterior light pages. This is very helpful. I was hung-up for the last two months thinking the mount and the fuselage piece was from the ADF antenna (mount) back to the tail, however, I believe you’re correct that the mount might be the white recognition light above the wings. I can now focus on trying to march the features in the following pictures to this area of the plane.

For example, the following picture was taken inside of the piece of the fuselage wreckage looking out through the mount hole (upper right). Below the mount hole you will see a square access panel or window. This should be something we can match up to fuselage area above the wings:
http://www.missingaircrew.com/trip/mount/yap1_151.jpg

In addition, if you look at the area in the back of the picture above and at the picture below you’ll see some support beams that might be the support for the belly turret. What do you and others think?
http://www.missingaircrew.com/trip/mount/yap1_15.jpg

If anyone has a close-up picture of the top recognition light on a B-24J, please post a picture or email me at: pat@missingaircrew.com

Trying to match-up the pieces of B-24 wreckage we found in Yap is like putting together a complex puzzle (very interesting). I greatly appreciate everyone’s help.

Also, I would be very interested in borrowing a recognition light to match up with the parts we have located in Yap. My mailing address is:

Patrick Ranfranz
Missing Air Crew Project
3165 Victoria St.
Shoreview, MN 55126

Thank you!

-Pat

_________________
Patrick T. Ranfranz
Missing Air Crew Project & 307th Bomb Group Historian
www.MissingAirCrew.com & www.307bg.org
___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___

MACR #10023. My uncle, John R. McCullough, 307th Bomb Group, was shot down near Yap Island and declared MIA/KIA on 25 June 44

Hello Pat,

The more I look at the wreckage photos on your web site, the more I think that it might not be a B-24.

The photo showing the mount and the surrounding wreckage has too many curves and points to be from a B-24 structure, especially where the upward recognition light was located.

The structure looks like a strake or ventral fin leading to the vertical stabilizer similar to what I have seen in a B-17 or C-47. The problem with the strake is that it gets larger as it moves forward on the fuselage (according to the tear drop cut out of the recognition light).

I remember seeing a recognition light on top of a fuselage similar to this, so I dug into some old photos that I had taken at the Fleet Air Arm Museum in Yovelton, England.

Take a look at the crescent shaped formers with the lightening holes at the top of the fuselage. I have rotated your shot so the light and the top of the fuselage is vertical.





The shots below show the aft part of the fuselage with the triangular structure where the horizontal stabilizer attaches. The bulkhead construction and the lightening hole patterns are very similar.




These photos show the AN104 antenna. At the top of the photo on the right you can barely see the bottom of the antenna, the coax, connector and its mounting bracket. The lightening hole is visible that matches the former in your shot. The flange on the former and the side of the I beam that the antenna is mounted on also match your photo.

The built up I beam structure makes up the beefy roll over structure behind the pilot's head and armor plate.

[img]http://www.twinbeech.com/images/F6F/antenna_07[1].jpg[/img]


The clincher for me was the radio rack photo. The data tag shows the rack to be from an ARC-5 set. The ARC-5 was a Navy set and would not be found in the Army B-24. The Army used a similar set under the designation SCR-274N. Army radio components would have Signal Corp tags. The photo on the right shows the Navy ARC-5 rack installed in the rear fuselage (painted black wrinkle finish).

[img]http://www.twinbeech.com/images/F6F/b24part_207[1].jpg[/img]



All of these parts seem to come from the same area of the aft fuselage of a Grumman F6F Hellcat. Below are two shots of F6F-5's. The one on the left is KE-209 at the Fleet Air museum in Yovelton, England. The one on the right is, or was, Paul Allen's F6F-5K bureau number 79863.




You can see the AN104 antenna as well as the upward recognition light. The recognition light on the Royal Navy bird has been changed with a blue formation light. On the FHC Hellcat there appears to be two lights installed on top of the fuselage. This aircraft has had some civilian mods so one of the lights may be a strobe, I just can't recall.

My best guess is that you have a Hellcat, and I bet that from the ARC-5 CBY contract markings on the radio rack data plate that it will turn out to be an F6F-5.

I am sorry if this information doesn't help to identify your Uncles B-24. I can only imagine how important it is for you to find him and his crew.

Sincerely,
Taigh

_________________
To donate to the PV-2D project via PayPal click here http://www.twinbeech.com/84062restoration.htm

We brought her from: to this in 3 months: Help us get her all the way back

All donations are tax deductible as the Stockton Field Aviation Museum is a 501c3 nonprofit organization. Tell a friend as the Harpoon needs all the help she can get.

Thank you!

Taigh Ramey
Vintage Aircraft, Stockton, California
http://www.twinbeech.com
'KEEP ‘EM FLYING…FOR HISTORY!'

Hi Taigh;

Great information. Although I have found two Hellcats on Yap (land), I'm still looking for 3 additional Hellcats of teh 33 planes lost over Yap. A comprehesive list of planes lost on missions to Yap can be viewed at: http://www.missingaircrew.com/yap/yapmissions.asp

Do you have a Hellcat manual or knowledge if the following Oil Separator was used on a Hellcat as well as a B-24?
B-24 Wreckage-Oil Separator Wreckage Identified:
http://www.missingaircrew.com/trip/american2/oil/

Thanks,

-Pat

_________________
Patrick T. Ranfranz
Missing Air Crew Project & 307th Bomb Group Historian
www.MissingAirCrew.com & www.307bg.org
___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___

MACR #10023. My uncle, John R. McCullough, 307th Bomb Group, was shot down near Yap Island and declared MIA/KIA on 25 June 44

Taigh/Others:

If the wreckage is from a Hellcat, what do you think is shown within the following pictures?

http://www.missingaircrew.com/trip/amer ... SC6888.jpg
http://www.missingaircrew.com/trip/amer ... SC6889.jpg
http://www.missingaircrew.com/trip/amer ... SC6903.jpg
http://www.missingaircrew.com/trip/amer ... SC6900.jpg
http://www.missingaircrew.com/trip/amer ... SC6896.jpg

Thanks,

-Pat

_________________
Patrick T. Ranfranz
Missing Air Crew Project & 307th Bomb Group Historian
www.MissingAirCrew.com & www.307bg.org
___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___

MACR #10023. My uncle, John R. McCullough, 307th Bomb Group, was shot down near Yap Island and declared MIA/KIA on 25 June 44

Hello Pat,

I think that your photos show what’s left of the engine and mount. The V shaped tubes look like the ones coming directly off of the firewall, which is not present.

I have rotated the shot to try and match the angle.



I might have a -2 for the F6F-5 but I am not sure. I didn't pull a cowling on the Fleet Air Arm museum's F6F so I do not have any engine compartment shots that might show the air oil separator. I will keep looking.


Taigh

_________________
To donate to the PV-2D project via PayPal click here http://www.twinbeech.com/84062restoration.htm

We brought her from: to this in 3 months: Help us get her all the way back

All donations are tax deductible as the Stockton Field Aviation Museum is a 501c3 nonprofit organization. Tell a friend as the Harpoon needs all the help she can get.

Thank you!

Taigh Ramey
Vintage Aircraft, Stockton, California
http://www.twinbeech.com
'KEEP ‘EM FLYING…FOR HISTORY!'

Taigh:

I can't thank you enough for helping me match the wreckage pieces to a Hellcat. I have been pulling my hair out over the last two months trying to match the parts we found to my B-24 manual. Although we found other Hellcat crash sites on Yap over the last two years (land and mangroves), I was so sure that this particular site was a bomber that I looked past some obvious features that should have pointed me to a Hellcat.

Any additional help to match the other parts will be icing on the cake. I can now start the work to id the actual plane and pilot.

It's likely that the wreckage of this Hellcat was flown by Lt. Zack F. Lillard. He was lost on November 22, 1944 on a mission from the USS Enterprise. More information and a picture of Zack can be viewed at:
http://www.missingaircrew.com/yap/mac/22nov1944.asp

Once again, thank you for your time and help!

-Pat

_________________
Patrick T. Ranfranz
Missing Air Crew Project & 307th Bomb Group Historian
www.MissingAirCrew.com & www.307bg.org
___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___

MACR #10023. My uncle, John R. McCullough, 307th Bomb Group, was shot down near Yap Island and declared MIA/KIA on 25 June 44

Here an additional link to wreckage we located at this site. Let me know if you can match additional pictures to Hellcat parts:

http://www.missingaircrew.com/trip/b24parts/index1.html

Thanks,

-Pat

_________________
Patrick T. Ranfranz
Missing Air Crew Project & 307th Bomb Group Historian
www.MissingAirCrew.com & www.307bg.org
___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___

MACR #10023. My uncle, John R. McCullough, 307th Bomb Group, was shot down near Yap Island and declared MIA/KIA on 25 June 44