Warbird Information Exchange

Morning all!

From what I can see on here, it seems like this group is an opinionated bunch (in a good way!) and that generally as a group no one seems shy to offer their opinion either. I think that is a great thing, and I hope to use that to my advantage. I am looking for some advice and I think this is a tremendous resource.

What I am wondering is about education and schools. I am having a really hard time making a decision as to where to go and what to do, etc. Sadly I don't know too many pilots either to use as resources.

For those of you that work or worked formerly, or even have knowledge of the commercial aviation industry maybe you can help me. I am battling between the choice of attending a school geared exclusively towards aviation, like Embry Riddle, a state university with a Flight Technology degree, or attending basically any accredited university and majoring in something like business or marketing, etc.

Here are my thoughts so far, please feel free to comment. As a matter of fact, I'd really appreciate it!

Embry Riddle from what I understand is a great school. Turns out good pilots and has some clout with the airlines, etc. My concerns are that it's fairly expensive and I worry that someday what if I can't obtain a First Class flight physical? (I do currently hold one.) Then all of my training and education is solely in aviation and I worry that I won't have anything to fall back on.

I could attend somewhere (the program I am considering is at Central WA University) they have a Flight Technology degree that basically walks you though your CFII rating. The thought here is that you get lots of flying time, the flight education and training and you still have your basic university studies as well. Also, not an inexpensive option, but an option nonetheless. (They also have a direct hire program with Alaska airlines.)

Lastly the most cost effective method of obtaining my degree would be to attend basically any university and obtain a general degree... like I said, business, etc. I have heard that if you want to be a pilot as long as you have a degree it doesn't so much matter what the degree is in, as long as you have one, and you have the hours required and ratings, etc.

So, in a nutshell, I don't know which option is really the best. Do the airlines (any of you work for Fedex? That's where I REALLY want to work someday) really care about where your education is from, or just that you have one? What about other sectors of commercial aviation? Where are the most desirable pilots coming from? What educational things are seen as strong points?

Any help or advice that you guys can offer would be greatly appreciated. I am just at such a loss these days... there are so many options out there, it's a little overwhelming.

Thanks guys!!!!

Steph

_________________
"It is the greatest shot of adrenaline to be doing what you have wanted to do so badly. You almost feel like you could fly without the plane." Charles Lindbergh

Having some good friends who loss their airline pensions I would suggest.
Get a medical tech degree. You're in Vancouver (right??), PCC has a awesome X-Ray tech program. The hospital were I work it's a $25/hr job to start. Then you can make good $$ and fly for fun!
Fun is always better than work!

_________________
Don't touch my junk!!

Pilot Jobs?

I agree with the Medical suggestion.
Then you can perform the Lobotomies, not need one!

--COMA Cranky Old Mechanics Association

In all actuality there are great Aviation Schools everywhere.
At least one of our regulars on here has been to DWC in New Hampshire, there could be more.
There are also local schools in our area that offer Pilot Degrees, North Shore Community College is nearby.

Find someone you can build time with that doesnt cost an arm and a leg. I guess that is the most important thing.

Good luck!

_________________
"Hindsight is usually 20% off!"

As Ken noted, I went to Daniel Webster College (www.dwc.edu) for aviation flight operations, then became an aviation management major (see below).

I will start by saying that I currently work for Daniel Webster College as the Associate Director of Marketing... I job I was offered last January after being in the private sector for a while. I love the school so much, I decided to come back to help make a difference...

... so I am a little biased I guess. But I believe in the school and the programs a lot... as you will read.

My story began when I was 18 and looking at programs... I applied to Riddle (both AZ and FL) and UND Aerospace. Was accepted at both and chose Riddle in AZ originally. They looked great and I thought all was going to be fine...

Until I got my financial aid package. Riddle gives very little in the way of institutional financial aid to incoming students. I was disappointed and I deferred my enrollment for a year as I was lacking funds for the start with the gap in aid.

In the year I deferred, I found Daniel Webster almost by accident. Being from New York State, I was close to Daniel Webster in Nashua, NH... but I had never heard of them. Come to find out, Embry-Riddle and Daniel Webster College came to be as colleges around the same time (in the 60's) and DWC offered a very diverse flight program... with motorgliders, aerobatics, and a diverse flight environment (I actually like snow). Furthermore, DWC gave me a tremendous financial aid package (they give $5.5 Million in institutional grants and scholarships annually to a student population of 600+/- students)

I visited DWC and fell in love with the college immediately... small campus, close to Boston, smack dab in the middle of a really nice area (I love NH and will never leave now!)

I actually started in the Professional Pilot program (4 year degree) but had the same questions in my mind as I went through my PPL and got pretty close to my IFR rating. I saw myself spending a lot of money (all my own through loans) and made the tough choice to change to aviation management... which I felt would be a good choice for career options. I love aviation and love working in the industry regardless if I was at the pointy end!

It was the best choice of my life I feel. The aviation management faculty at DWC are some of the, if not THE best in the US. The opportunities afforded to me in the four years there were amazing and I graduated with an amazing amount of confidence.

Immediately after graduating, I was hired by the Collings Foundation as the marketing director initially, but then became manager of the Wings of Freedom Tour (B-17, B-24, and B-25 nationwide tour) and worked with them for 5 years... an AMAZING experience that DWC prepared me for... not to mention the fact that DWC and the Collings Foundation had partnerships that allowed me to be noticed before being hired.

That said, I feel that what you get out of an education is directly proportional to what you put in... There are a lot of places out there that will give you the ratings if you give them the cash, but what do they give you after you get them? Some have direct partnerships with airlines, if you want to work for an airline... and in many cases it is only a guaranteed interview, not a guaranteed job.

I am personally very glad that I didn't go for the airline job... I have friends that went that route and either were furloughed or left the industry because they were sick of the politics.

There are very few "direct" routes into the cargo haulers... but I have seen a lot of people go into them after a few years with corporate and business aviation operators. DWC has a lot of connections with these kind of companies and I see that growing in the next few years as we are launching a whole invigorated internship program with corporate operators.

On top of that, DWC is dramatically changing the flight program within the year to adapt to the significant changes the industry has seen... I can't say much, but I think it will be amazing once launched.

Wow, I am rambling here...

We are indeed seeing many companies asking for pilots with specialized education in the aviation industry. DWC has been surveying companies on hiring practices for the last year and it has been consistant... they are looking for people with focus in aviation and the business behind it. It used to be true that ANY degree and the ratings would be fine for hiring, but as companies are becoming leaner and meaner, they want pilots that have the skills and background to do auxilary tasks that don't have much to do with turning a yoke, but rather involve navigating aviation regulations, paperwork, government reporting, customer service, and even (gasp) marketing and business development. All these areas are different in aviation... so a degree in environmental science, or phys ed won't do much for your hiring.

But it is true... you NEED a four year degree these days. The days of no degree and lots of flight time or a 2 year degree and some flight time are long gone.

OK, now that I have bored you to tears... PLEASE feel free to email or message me for any questions you have. I am not sure where you are in your college planning, but I would be happy to show you around DWC if you want to come for a visit...

... If you are a senior now, I have some programs that might be interesting for you if you would like to look at DWC... some grants and scholarships are coming up in the next few months and you may be interested in them.

All the best,
Ryan Keough - keough.ryan@gmail.com

_________________
Ryan Keough
Stow, MA

Stephanie, I went to Flightsafety in Vero Beach just for my IFR rating. It was way overpriced, top $ for averaqge training. Lot's of Saudi's there then. Their high end simulator courses at Wichita might be tops, but expensive. My 2nd choice, FSI ? in Melborne may be a full college and seemed good. A Warbird friend's son went to the college in Dakota thought it was good and now flys for Frontier. All the kids here like U of Colo, I do not know if they have an aviation major, but there is a good little airport in town. Good luck

_________________
Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

Ryan, I sent you an email, so instead of duplicating that here you can check that! Thank you SO much for the information!

_________________
"It is the greatest shot of adrenaline to be doing what you have wanted to do so badly. You almost feel like you could fly without the plane." Charles Lindbergh

Thanks Bill and thank you for the information on FlightSafety. My understanding is that FS is for people that already have their 4 year degree, correct? Anyhow, thank you so so much, I appreciate the input!

Stephanie

_________________
"It is the greatest shot of adrenaline to be doing what you have wanted to do so badly. You almost feel like you could fly without the plane." Charles Lindbergh

Cracked me up!!! Thanks for the laugh, not a bad idea!

_________________
"It is the greatest shot of adrenaline to be doing what you have wanted to do so badly. You almost feel like you could fly without the plane." Charles Lindbergh

I think this pretty much sums up the Airlines

http://www.airlineempires.net/index.php ... &Itemid=88

And this

http://media.putfile.com/Mr-Discount-Airline-Pilot-Guy

An this
Here are some pilots working on their retirement!
www.glumbert.com/media/drunkpilots

Subject: Retirement

INVESTING FOR YOUR RETIREMET

If you had purchased $1000.00 of Northwest Airlines stock one year ago, it would now be worth $49.00.

With Delta, you would have had $16.50 left of the original $1,000.00.

With United, you would have had less than $5.00 left.

But, if you had purchased $1,000.00 worth of Beer one year ago, drank all the beer, then turned in the cans for the aluminum recycling REFUND,
you would have had $214.00.


Based on the above, current investment advice is to drink heavily and recycle.

It's called the 401-Keg Plan.


I'm not bitter , Just a former U aNd I [/color][/size]airlirline mechanic that was left behind by TED

That is always an option too!

I loved that first link you sent, it was amazing... up until the very very end, when it got a little disheartening, but I seriously loved the pictures. Incredible!

*cracks open a beer and reconsiders aviation career.* (Although its a quick reconsideration - I really want to fly.)

Thanks for the good laugh first thing this morning though.

_________________
"It is the greatest shot of adrenaline to be doing what you have wanted to do so badly. You almost feel like you could fly without the plane." Charles Lindbergh

That sums up why I did not go into the aviation world for a job. Not that Direct mail is much better. But I homebrew so I have something to fall back on, or down with depending on how you look at it.

Cheers!

Tim

_________________
www.tailhookstudio.com

Stephanie: Here is another possibility for you to consider. Get your degree in Pharmacology and go to work for a hospital as the weekend pharmacisit. That would give you the entire week to devote to flying. To give you an idea on how it pays, a first year pharmacisit, working for a chain store and pulling the rotten hours shifts, will draw very close to six figures. Had a family friend that started that way in the mid 80's. Gradutated and went to work for one chain. In four months got an offer to double her base pay to jump chains... by the time she had been out of school two years, she was pushing 90K base pay and working a scheduled 30 hours a week. Last time I talked to her, she was the weekend pharm. for some hospital, putting in 12 hour Saturdays and Sundays for 40 hours of pay.

Granted, it takes 5 years to get through the program, but you won't ever have to worry about finding a job.

Craig

But I homebrew so I have something to fall back on, or down with depending on how you look at it.

hahahahaha!



Cheers to that! LOL.

_________________
"It is the greatest shot of adrenaline to be doing what you have wanted to do so badly. You almost feel like you could fly without the plane." Charles Lindbergh

I was a copilot also for United Express and was worried about losing my job. One day I asked my Female Captan what she was going to do? She replied, " I don't know about you but I'm setting on a gold mine and winked! I guess nothing like laughing in the face of a swain dive into the abyss.

Too funny, guess its a good thing to keep a sense of humor about things.

_________________
"It is the greatest shot of adrenaline to be doing what you have wanted to do so badly. You almost feel like you could fly without the plane." Charles Lindbergh