The Right To Bear SLR's
Tue Dec 19, 2006 12:17 pm
Check out this article about photography in public places. It certainly applies to alot of us.
http://www.wired.com/news/wiredmag/0,72 ... n_index_16
http://www.wired.com/news/wiredmag/0,72 ... n_index_16
photos
Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:07 pm
If you are attacked by private security forces while in a public place, then you might have grounds for a civil suit and win a judgement. It would be great to have a witness, and best of all a video of the happened. You've got to be certain you are not on co. proprety such as a driveway. If you are dealing with public cops you can expect them to shoot first, especially with Tasers and make up the justification afterwards, so you better have video evidence and witnesses. In New Orleans they shot an unarmed retarded man 7 times in the back as he ran away, yet the cops have never been to charged.Juries may not always be on the citizens side.
Photographer beware
Tue Dec 19, 2006 4:32 pm
A couple of years ago, my wife and I were shooting photos of her 2005 Mustang Mach 1 for an upcoming magazine feature. We just drove around looking for interesting and scenic backdrops against which to photograph the car. The new Courthouse and City Hall building in the Old Town section of Lewisville, TX, is a fabulous retro-style building with gorgeous landscaping. The City is very proud of the new facility, and it's more or less the "crown jewel" of the revitalized downtown area. We thought the old-timey architecture would make a nice backdrop for some photos, since the new Mustang has such a retro look. We parked the car in the parking lot, then I moved back a ways with a long lens and started shooting. Within a minute or two, a Lewisville police cruiser whipped into the lot and the patrolman called me over. He asked the usual questions about who I was, what I was doing, whose car it was, and so forth, and he carefully scrutinized me and my answers. It was obvious that he was uncomfortable with people taking photos of the Courthouse. I don't know if that's a City policy or not. Luckily for us, he turned out to be a big Ford Mustang fan. Once he was convinced that I wasn't a terrorist, he regaled me with stories of the several Mustangs he owned in his younger days, including a '73 Mach 1 which he apparently really missed. After a few minutes, he told me to go ahead and take my photos, but to be quick about it, then he went on his way.
Later that same day, we were shooting photos of the Mach 1 at Fort Worth Alliance Airport, which is a very nice facility with beautiful landscaping. In the hour or so that we were there, several police officers and private security guards drove by us, and none of them gave us any trouble. The only one who stopped at all just wanted to compliment us on the car!
I'm not sure exactly what my point is, other than to point out the very big differences in the way the "Photo Nazis" handle things. I was surprised at the way we were handled in both of the above situations. I would have expected just the opposite!
Cheers,
Later that same day, we were shooting photos of the Mach 1 at Fort Worth Alliance Airport, which is a very nice facility with beautiful landscaping. In the hour or so that we were there, several police officers and private security guards drove by us, and none of them gave us any trouble. The only one who stopped at all just wanted to compliment us on the car!
I'm not sure exactly what my point is, other than to point out the very big differences in the way the "Photo Nazis" handle things. I was surprised at the way we were handled in both of the above situations. I would have expected just the opposite!
Cheers,
Tue Dec 19, 2006 4:54 pm
This strikes a raw nerve with me....
Here's my story... http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=71627#71627
Here's my story... http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=71627#71627
Tue Dec 19, 2006 5:50 pm
As someone who works at an Int'l airport (in New Orleans of all places) and is partly responsible for the security of it, I might be able to share some insight. I've noticed differences in response according to what organization the authority figure belongs to. For instance:
Whenever I'm on a perimeter inspection and run across a shutterbug taking pictures of the airplanes, I may talk to him and see what he's up to but that's where it stops. As long as they're not photographing the fence, or trying to determine weak points we generally don't have a problem. As a fellow plane nut, I happen to carry my Sony with me when I'm on patrol
Our airport police are pretty good as well; as long as the person does not present a threat they have no problem. Our airport police are Sherriff's Dept., and most of them should have the CIB for stuff that went down during and after Katrina. I can't speak for the NOPD and the incident with the handicapped man, but I remember going to sleep on unarmed SAR duty and hearing gunshots throughout the night. Most of these guys are decent, until someone is rude to them.
Finally there are the private security guards. These are the worst. The most dangerous thing in this city isn't a gangster with an AK-47, it's a fifth-grade dropout with a clipboard and a plastic badge. We had to put our foot down a while back because they insisted on searching the rescue trucks, which include a load of axes and cutting equipment to access trapped passengers.
All in all, the cops and airport personnel are mostly professionals. The rent-a-cops....not so much
.
Whenever I'm on a perimeter inspection and run across a shutterbug taking pictures of the airplanes, I may talk to him and see what he's up to but that's where it stops. As long as they're not photographing the fence, or trying to determine weak points we generally don't have a problem. As a fellow plane nut, I happen to carry my Sony with me when I'm on patrol
Our airport police are pretty good as well; as long as the person does not present a threat they have no problem. Our airport police are Sherriff's Dept., and most of them should have the CIB for stuff that went down during and after Katrina. I can't speak for the NOPD and the incident with the handicapped man, but I remember going to sleep on unarmed SAR duty and hearing gunshots throughout the night. Most of these guys are decent, until someone is rude to them.
Finally there are the private security guards. These are the worst. The most dangerous thing in this city isn't a gangster with an AK-47, it's a fifth-grade dropout with a clipboard and a plastic badge. We had to put our foot down a while back because they insisted on searching the rescue trucks, which include a load of axes and cutting equipment to access trapped passengers.
All in all, the cops and airport personnel are mostly professionals. The rent-a-cops....not so much
.
Tue Dec 19, 2006 6:46 pm
The worst I was ever hassled was at Oshkosh in the evening in the warbird area (not even on the hot-ramp side of the fence). No signs, no fence, no nothing, just open grass. I was taking pictures of Rudy Frasca's Spitfire without 300 people mauling it for a change. Worse than rent-a-cops are warbird volunteers with a golf cart! I guess thay are drawn like moths to bright flashes from a camera.
Seems like that was the last time I went to Oshkosh too. Coincidence????
Oh well, there's no award for going there 30 years in a row anyhow.
Seems like that was the last time I went to Oshkosh too. Coincidence????
Oh well, there's no award for going there 30 years in a row anyhow.
Tue Dec 19, 2006 10:24 pm
Just have to ask....
As long as they're not photographing the fence
And how does one determine this?
If I am standing outside the airport, there is a fence between me and the subject. The fence is in the way, to be shot over, around or through. I have pictures with airport fences in them...I must be trouble...
I guess this is where "interpretation" of intent comes in and it is the grey area by which the innocent becomes suspect and the power of the government out weighs the freedom of the people.
Rant off..
Tue Dec 19, 2006 11:21 pm
Oh well, there's no award for going there 30 years in a row anyhow.
Ah crap, now you tell me...
Ah crap, now you tell me...
Tue Dec 19, 2006 11:25 pm
Allow me to stand on both sides here...
I shoot for a living, and I shoot a wide variety of things. One of the things I do is to shoot professional sports, so I have all the big lenses associated with that. I'm not very subtle when I'm working, based on the size of the stuff.
With that in mind, I almost always phone ahead, especially around potentially sensitive areas. I've had great luck with things, and gotten pretty good access for where I need to be just by checking in ahead of time. By gettin git on record where I'm going and why, then the security folks already are aware I'm going to be somewhere, and are disarmed in advance.
My dad worked for TWA and managed to maintain his job at STL after American took over. He's a photographer as well, and he has often told me how antsy the security folk can get if they find someone in a place they didn't expect to find them.
I shoot for a living, and I shoot a wide variety of things. One of the things I do is to shoot professional sports, so I have all the big lenses associated with that. I'm not very subtle when I'm working, based on the size of the stuff.
With that in mind, I almost always phone ahead, especially around potentially sensitive areas. I've had great luck with things, and gotten pretty good access for where I need to be just by checking in ahead of time. By gettin git on record where I'm going and why, then the security folks already are aware I'm going to be somewhere, and are disarmed in advance.
My dad worked for TWA and managed to maintain his job at STL after American took over. He's a photographer as well, and he has often told me how antsy the security folk can get if they find someone in a place they didn't expect to find them.
Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:32 am
Ztex wrote::crispy:
Just have to ask....As long as they're not photographing the fence
And how does one determine this?
If I am standing outside the airport, there is a fence between me and the subject. The fence is in the way, to be shot over, around or through. I have pictures with airport fences in them...I must be trouble...
I guess this is where "interpretation" of intent comes in and it is the grey area by which the innocent becomes suspect and the power of the government out weighs the freedom of the people.
Rant off..
Nah, it's not too too difficult. If I see somebody taking photos in an area where there isn't a view of the aircraft then that makes it pretty obvious. We also know where the "trouble areas" are with the fence...areas where it would be easier for someone to penetrate, and we keep a weather eye on them.
You're right though, in the end it does come down to interpretataion. But it's intelligent interpretation that makes the difference between investigating the innocent and discouraging people who have dedicated their lives to ending ours.
Wed Dec 20, 2006 9:52 am
I have a lot of respect for that guy described in the link in Scott's post. Even though he obviously enjoys being a troublemaker, he is making the kind of trouble that helps protect all of our rights.
Americans' freedoms have never truly been jeopardized by terrorists or religious extremists (other than the ones we elect), or even by fascists or communists, whom we fought mostly to help out our friends. The greatest threats to our rights have always been internal. They have come from leaders who neither understand nor respect the Constitution, and from private interests who trample on our rights knowing that the system will back them up if we resist.
What Thomas Hawk does is not only laudable but a duty that we all have. We spend a lot of time on this board honoring our war heroes for defending our rights, but actually, soldiers never defend our rights directly -- they defend our security so that we can preserve our rights or squander them, as we see fit. But to squander our rights by caving in to thugs, whether private or public, who try to take them away is to waste our warriors' sacrifices.
Punisher05's post disturbs me. Nobody has the right to judge whether I am taking a picture of something too sensitive when I am in a public place. If I'm allowed to see it, I'm allowed to shoot it. I'm right with you on that one, Ztex.
August
Americans' freedoms have never truly been jeopardized by terrorists or religious extremists (other than the ones we elect), or even by fascists or communists, whom we fought mostly to help out our friends. The greatest threats to our rights have always been internal. They have come from leaders who neither understand nor respect the Constitution, and from private interests who trample on our rights knowing that the system will back them up if we resist.
What Thomas Hawk does is not only laudable but a duty that we all have. We spend a lot of time on this board honoring our war heroes for defending our rights, but actually, soldiers never defend our rights directly -- they defend our security so that we can preserve our rights or squander them, as we see fit. But to squander our rights by caving in to thugs, whether private or public, who try to take them away is to waste our warriors' sacrifices.
Punisher05's post disturbs me. Nobody has the right to judge whether I am taking a picture of something too sensitive when I am in a public place. If I'm allowed to see it, I'm allowed to shoot it. I'm right with you on that one, Ztex.
August
Wed Dec 20, 2006 10:10 am
I went to the USA the other day with the 208, and I was told I wasn't allowed to take pictures on the FBO's ramp. I was pretty pissed off as there were interesting aircraft there (turbine jobs, but still!) So I stayed put (I wanted to pull a "I'm Canadian, I'm taking pictures, so sue me!" but I thought better!) Anyways, in came a Bell 205, down went the 208's airstairs and click went the DSLR!
P.S. A Caravan is a good spot to shoot, you're invisible in there.
P.S. A Caravan is a good spot to shoot, you're invisible in there.
???
Wed Dec 20, 2006 10:12 am
I remember once going to an airshow with a friend and his P-51. We had landed and had gotten out but were still on the wing when we were jumped by a full platoon of 14 year old power crazed CAF (oops) CAP miniturized storm troopers. We were sternly commanded to get off the airplane and get off of the area immediately or we would be detained and ejected from the airshow. Before it got really ugly (Mustang Jim don't take cr*p off of anyone especially rude teenagers with more ribbons than Audie Murphy!) the commandant arrived, cleared things up and send his gang of unarmed killbots off the greet the next arriving warbird. Just one of many similar CAP airshow experiences.
Last edited by Jack Cook on Wed Dec 20, 2006 11:22 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Wed Dec 20, 2006 10:58 am
Punisher05 wrote:Finally there are the private security guards. These are the worst. The most dangerous thing in this city isn't a gangster with an AK-47, it's a fifth-grade dropout with a clipboard and a plastic badge. We had to put our foot down a while back because they insisted on searching the rescue trucks, which include a load of axes and cutting equipment to access trapped passengers.
All in all, the cops and airport personnel are mostly professionals. The rent-a-cops....not so much
Hey...the Barney Fife's of the world have a mission to "nip it...nip it in the bud"
Re: ???
Wed Dec 20, 2006 2:22 pm
Jack Cook wrote:I remember once going to an airshow with a friend and his P-51. We had landed and have gotten out but were still on the wing when we were jumped by a full platoon of 14 year old power crazed CAF (oops) CAP miniturized storm troopers. We were sternly commanded to get off the airplane and get off of the area immediately or we would be detained and ejected from the airshow. Before it got really ugly (Mustang Jim don't take cr*p off of anyone especially rude teenagers with more ribbons than Audie Murphy!) the commandant arrived, cleared things up and send his gang of unarmed killbots of the greet the next arriving warbird. Just one of many similar CAP airshow experiences.
Can't tell you the number of times I've had to do that. It's nice to have "spirited" cadets, but sometimes they need a good deal of salt put on their tails. I hated the type when I was a cadet...nothing like dealing with a little Prussian general who can't shave yet!