Mon Dec 18, 2006 9:33 am
mustangdriver wrote:I don't understand why this is a big deal.
I agree. I'm at a loss as to what the issue is? Bonding amongst those in times of hardship has been ongoing since the beginning of time. It's nothing new.
Is it the actual term "party suit"??
Mon Dec 18, 2006 9:58 am
According to our resources that is the correct term. Our museum is not just about war, it is about the men. They flew very dangerous missions, and wanted to party a little but in their off time. These are just trying to tell that story as well.
Mon Dec 18, 2006 12:20 pm
The USAF SEA "party suit" was a uniform, albeit and unofficial one and as such, it's a legitimate historical artifact. Whether or not it's significant enough to be displayed at the NMUSAF is debatable, but so far the curators and the visitors think so. The Museum of Naval Aviation in Pensacola has a replica cafe of the Cubi Point Officers Club (Phillippines) with original artifacts. Anyone who visited Cubi back in the day's knows wild stories you wouldn't want to tell in mixed company, so is this Naval Air Museum exhibit somehow glorifying debauchery and "conduct unbecoming" our servicemen? It's the whole history, like it or not, whether it's a "party suit" or an unofficial bootleg shoulder patch--and having a selective memory can lead to a slippery slope. The My-Lai massacre was a horrible atrocity, but would it be right for any historical record of the ground war in SEA to avoid mention of it? In my own operational experiences as the commander of a flight crew or a deployment package, I didn't care if my men spent their off-time in the strip joint or the christian science reading room as long as they didn't end up in trouble, in jail or unable to perform their duty 100% the next day. Some of the best combat leaders were trash-talking wild a*ses in their off time. I'd sooner fly, fight, and drink Jeremiah Weed in a "party suit" (after hours) alongside a Gen Robin Olds type than put up with some finger-pointing "perfumed prince" politician-in-blue-suit so prevalent in the higher ranks today. I think it was USMC Col Chesty Puller that said something to the effect that every good Marine's been in the brig once. IMHO there's no controversy here.
Tue Dec 19, 2006 9:37 am
mustangdriver wrote:According to our resources that is the correct term. Our museum is not just about war, it is about the men. They flew very dangerous missions, and wanted to party a little but in their off time. These are just trying to tell that story as well.
I was aware of the term. I guess I was pondering what the apparent issue was with them? Seems no different than the usual badged up flight suits worn on the squadrons -- i.e. a means to overtly display esprit-de-corps. Still scratching my head over what the fuss was about
Tue Dec 19, 2006 9:39 am
Same here L2 I don't get it either.
Tue Dec 19, 2006 11:53 am
After spending 3 days at the FAC reunion/ memorial dedication at WPAFM:
1.) the correct term is "party suits".
2.)Yes, they were used to party.
3.) none of us are perfect, and few have been under fire. I judge them on their actions in the air and doing their job and doing it above and beyond. Their own time is their own time.
1.) the correct term is "party suits".
2.)Yes, they were used to party.
3.) none of us are perfect, and few have been under fire. I judge them on their actions in the air and doing their job and doing it above and beyond. Their own time is their own time.
Thu Dec 21, 2006 8:26 am
"Warrior Monks" is the current term that is being used to describe this [unrealistic] expectation that members of the military must be voracious life-takers while in combat, yet lead clean monk-ish lives while not fighting. No, skirt-chasing, cussing, drinking are all not allowed -- they must be politically correct in speech, good family-men, and leaders of their Sunday School group. The rationale for this is that, apparently, military personnel are to be held to a higher standard.
Thu Dec 21, 2006 9:16 am
Randy Haskin wrote: No, skirt-chasing, cussing, drinking are all not allowed
Well that rules out all of us Squids ("Sailors", for you Non-Navy types)
Shay
____________
Semper Fortis
Thu Dec 21, 2006 9:44 am
Randy Haskin wrote:"Warrior Monks" is the current term that is being used to describe this [unrealistic] expectation that members of the military must be voracious life-takers while in combat, yet lead clean monk-ish lives while not fighting. No, skirt-chasing, cussing, drinking are all not allowed -- they must be politically correct in speech, good family-men, and leaders of their Sunday School group. The rationale for this is that, apparently, military personnel are to be held to a higher standard.
These folks must wake up screaming in horror when hearing/reading about the former goings-on in TAC (pre-ACC, for those too young to remember)!
Thu Dec 21, 2006 11:48 am
L2Driver wrote:These folks must wake up screaming in horror when hearing/reading about the former goings-on in TAC (pre-ACC, for those too young to remember)!
Trust me, there are plenty of us who are in the life-taking-with-airplanes business who think that the entire "warrior monk" idea is idiocy.
However, the concept remains...
Thu Dec 21, 2006 12:15 pm
I think the pendulum is starting to swing back the other way.
Regular folks are starting to show a definite lack of tolerance for the PC crowd.
Hopefully the common sense crowd will eventually prevail.
Regular folks are starting to show a definite lack of tolerance for the PC crowd.
Hopefully the common sense crowd will eventually prevail.