Fri Dec 22, 2006 8:30 pm
Looks to me that theres enough supporting structure around the skin that it wouldn't be a problem...you'd probably have some sort of floor board over the area anyway...?
Fri Dec 22, 2006 9:17 pm
The reasoning behind my thinking is that in a Vertical opening such as a pass door the skin ends at the door frame . There is no arm for the metal to be bent. Also there is no real preasure against the door frame however in a horizontal opening the lip around the window could be used by the novice as a step and as much as 250 lbs+ of pressure could be appiled to and deforming the flange. I wonder what the consolidated BP say.... Also it looks like people have been walking on the skin going to the tail..
Fri Dec 22, 2006 10:38 pm
I am assuming that Gary will build the inside something like this picture shows...Floor boards and extra structure for the gunner to sit on and be able to swing the gun without getting his feet caught in the structure.
http://www.liberatorcrew.com/15_Gunnery/Photos/B-24L.jpg
http://www.liberatorcrew.com/15_Gunnery/Photos/B-24L.jpg
Fri Dec 22, 2006 11:16 pm
You are very talented Gary. Keep up the good work!
Sat Dec 23, 2006 5:24 am
Broken-Wrench, thanks for your input. To answer your question, I will definitely be beefing up the inside of the structure surrounding the tunnel gun door. I have only had the outside skin clecoed in place in order to facilitate the assembly and fitting of the tunnel gun door itself. As a matter of fact, before I make the striker plate for the door latch, I am going to get on that project of beefing up and permanently riveting on the skin and surrounding structure.
There is a lot of moving back and forth with a project like this. I had to build the outer skin before I could make the door, but I had to make the door before I knew where I could add structure for the outer skin. It's akin to trying to answer the chicken or the egg question.
Oh, and I already have plans for some authentic looking floorboards that will run down the sides of the tunnel gun position so that Squadron members and the general public will not walk on and continue to trash the actual structure itself. This is one of those things where I must alter from the original setup in order to accomodate our current operations. You are definitely correct in the fact that some of the structure has been walked on in the past. I will add those floorboards to keep things like this from happening in the future...........
Gary
There is a lot of moving back and forth with a project like this. I had to build the outer skin before I could make the door, but I had to make the door before I knew where I could add structure for the outer skin. It's akin to trying to answer the chicken or the egg question.
Oh, and I already have plans for some authentic looking floorboards that will run down the sides of the tunnel gun position so that Squadron members and the general public will not walk on and continue to trash the actual structure itself. This is one of those things where I must alter from the original setup in order to accomodate our current operations. You are definitely correct in the fact that some of the structure has been walked on in the past. I will add those floorboards to keep things like this from happening in the future...........
Gary
Sat Dec 23, 2006 11:57 am
As a huge fan of this thread I have decided to start archiving it. Gary, if he is willing, will keep posting to this thread as he has been doing. As time goes on I will be organizing the pictures and information into something a little easier to view. I've been working on the beginnings of this "article" and they can be seen here http://articles.warbirdsresourcegroup.o ... index.html
I will be expanding this article quite a bit more this weekend and for the weeks to come as Gary continues his work. I want to once again thank Gary for making this thread so interesting and for letting me "write" the article. Keep up the good work Gary.
I will be expanding this article quite a bit more this weekend and for the weeks to come as Gary continues his work. I want to once again thank Gary for making this thread so interesting and for letting me "write" the article. Keep up the good work Gary.
Sat Dec 23, 2006 12:08 pm
Very nice Scott. That makes it so much easier to view all the pics instead of having to go back through this long thread. 
Sat Dec 23, 2006 12:50 pm
You really need a heat treating oven down there for the type of work your'e doing.. The CAF clearly needs that type of tooling It would make the job fabricating much easier.
Sat Dec 23, 2006 1:26 pm
Broken-Wrench wrote:You really need a heat treating oven down there for the type of work your'e doing.. The CAF clearly needs that type of tooling It would make the job fabricating much easier.
Show me the money!!!
90% of the fabrication tools I'm using for this are my own personal tools. We are quite limited on shop equipment and tools here, nor do we have the money to purchase any.
It's all a matter of cubic dollars.
Gary
Sat Dec 23, 2006 3:05 pm
That's why I'm trying to buy all of the tools I used at the airlines.. It is hard to go from the majors to little league I 'm almost there though!!! Do you need some toggle clamps.. I buy surplus out of a aircraft factory. Look on Ebay under the seller name RV505.. If you need any I'll send you some.. I am a little low on stuff now.. Anyway I competing with santa clause. I don't know how they could keep all of that going without the proper tools.. Been there done that ! It sure is a betch...I'm in the basement putting more work benchs together. You can't ever have enough.! And all my stuff is on wheels!! Gypsys have to have wheels!
Sat Dec 23, 2006 3:25 pm
We would be delighted to have some toggle clamps donated to the cause. 
Heck, I'm not kidding when I say that we could use just dang near anything related to sheet metal tools. From clecos, to drills, to toggle clamps, to an 8' shear. I simply cannot afford to keep buying stuff myself.
Thanks for the offer Broken-Wrench!
Gary
Heck, I'm not kidding when I say that we could use just dang near anything related to sheet metal tools. From clecos, to drills, to toggle clamps, to an 8' shear. I simply cannot afford to keep buying stuff myself.
Thanks for the offer Broken-Wrench!
Gary
Sat Dec 23, 2006 3:27 pm
There is a write-up in Sundays Houston Chronicle on Diamond Lil and Gary's work in the City and State section! Keep up the great work.
Tim Landers
CAF West Houston
Tim Landers
CAF West Houston
Sat Dec 23, 2006 3:31 pm
Sounds like that one little article has made it's way all over the place. I'll pass that along to our P.R. lady so she knows as well.
Thanks Tim,
Gary
Thanks Tim,
Gary
Sat Dec 23, 2006 3:39 pm
All of this fantastic information allows me to have a greater appreciation to those who work to restore/ improve these vintage planes especially at the volunteer level. I never really realized how much stress is involved in maintaning these planes in a time crunch like this one. I applaud Gary and the CAF for their time and efforts to preserve this old gal for future generations.
Happy Holidays!
Happy Holidays!
Diamond Lil
Sat Dec 23, 2006 7:17 pm
Gary,
Just tuned in again. Looks great. Again, this is the sort of thread that generates so much good publicity that I believe it should continue for the benefit of your other ongoing projects. Would love to help one day.... spent many great times in San Antonio where I gained my US civil licence at Boerne Stage airport. Had a good connection with Dixie Air Parts... maybe you should contact Deb there ref GSE and tooling? As an Honorary Texan to another it really looks great.
Pete
Just tuned in again. Looks great. Again, this is the sort of thread that generates so much good publicity that I believe it should continue for the benefit of your other ongoing projects. Would love to help one day.... spent many great times in San Antonio where I gained my US civil licence at Boerne Stage airport. Had a good connection with Dixie Air Parts... maybe you should contact Deb there ref GSE and tooling? As an Honorary Texan to another it really looks great.
Pete