Sun Jan 07, 2007 4:23 am
Everytime I fill-up, I'm loosing $60. And I'm driving a diesel! You guys in the US are lucky, trust me.
about the carriers: some of the preserved museum ones are allready having a real rough time keeping their heads above water. Do we really need more preserved carriers? Maybe one or 2, but can't safve them all.
about the carriers: some of the preserved museum ones are allready having a real rough time keeping their heads above water. Do we really need more preserved carriers? Maybe one or 2, but can't safve them all.
Sun Jan 07, 2007 8:18 am
Why sink it ? That thing is worth a fortune. Current prices for scrap iron have never been higher. 
Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:35 am
dmx wrote:Why sink it ? That thing is worth a fortune. Current prices for scrap iron have never been higher.
The reason the Oriskany stayed around until last year (it was decommmion in 1975) is because companys that would bid on the scrapping contract would default and the navy would have to take the ship back. Maybe it's a back log or not enough qualified compies to do the work.
One thing I found interest was that the plans are to sink the Foreestal outside of diving range. I would have assume that they would to follow the Oriskany's example which is boosting diving tourism for the city of Pensacola.
Shay
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Semper Fortis
Sun Jan 07, 2007 10:33 am
Fouga23 wrote:Everytime I fill-up, I'm loosing $60. And I'm driving a diesel! You guys in the US are lucky, trust me.
about the carriers: some of the preserved museum ones are allready having a real rough time keeping their heads above water. Do we really need more preserved carriers? Maybe one or 2, but can't safve them all.
When I fill up my F-250 with Diesel, its a $75.00 job and I get 17 mpg...
Lynn
Sun Jan 07, 2007 12:34 pm
Shay wrote:One thing I found interest was that the plans are to sink the Foreestal outside of diving range. I would have assume that they would to follow the Oriskany's example which is boosting diving tourism for the city of Pensacola.
My guess would be that associated costs of making the ship reasonably safe to dive is just to much hassle. Welding shut what needs to be welded, removing hazardous materials, signing the 647,983 Environmental waivers and liability release forms that need to be signed.
It's got to be far easier to just say "Sign here, here, and here. Ok, now it's officially YOUR problem."
Sun Jan 07, 2007 5:19 pm
Just where is the Forrestal gunna be sunk?
Sun Jan 07, 2007 6:28 pm
Probably too much asbestos and lead paint danger to salvage. Better to sink it in the ocean for the fishies. Or maybe this is where the USN stores all their unrestored artifacts.valdez25 wrote:How about recycling them? Gotta be a lot of good iron there!
Hey, they towed the U-505 to Chicago, how about putting it on display there? You could make a museum displaying some of the Lake Michigan recoveries.
You heard the idea here first folks, now who is going to run with it? 
Sun Jan 07, 2007 8:57 pm
I think after the fiasco that occured when the Coral Sea was scrapped (environmental issues, etc.) have cause the Navy to be gun-shy when it comes to scrapping versus sinking as a reef.
Being a class leader is no guarantee of preservation, after all, Yorktown and Intrepid were saved while the Essex got scrapped. If there was a ship that was a universally recognized "class leader", it was Essex. The Pacific war was won, in large part, by Essex-class carriers. Also, there are a handful of preserved Fletcher-class destroyers preserved, but Fletcher, a veteran of the night battle off Guadalcanal, was scrapped. While it would be nice if Forrestal was the one chosen to be preserved, at least the Navy has enough forethought to preserve at least one of the class. I imagine on its retirement, Enterprise will be made into a museum, too. The Navy won't screw that one up twice!
What happened to the Cabot was simply an outrage. Here you have the NHC, claiming ownership over everything, and they basically washed their hands of the Cabot situation. To think that there was the last of the CVLs, with its original straight flight deck, and to see it get cut up....ugh! Talk about an utter waste.
Being a class leader is no guarantee of preservation, after all, Yorktown and Intrepid were saved while the Essex got scrapped. If there was a ship that was a universally recognized "class leader", it was Essex. The Pacific war was won, in large part, by Essex-class carriers. Also, there are a handful of preserved Fletcher-class destroyers preserved, but Fletcher, a veteran of the night battle off Guadalcanal, was scrapped. While it would be nice if Forrestal was the one chosen to be preserved, at least the Navy has enough forethought to preserve at least one of the class. I imagine on its retirement, Enterprise will be made into a museum, too. The Navy won't screw that one up twice!
What happened to the Cabot was simply an outrage. Here you have the NHC, claiming ownership over everything, and they basically washed their hands of the Cabot situation. To think that there was the last of the CVLs, with its original straight flight deck, and to see it get cut up....ugh! Talk about an utter waste.
Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:48 am
bdk wrote:Probably too much asbestos and lead paint danger to salvage.valdez25 wrote:How about recycling them? Gotta be a lot of good iron there!
That's been a huge issue with the French Carrier Clemenceau. Greenpeace has raised such a stink that she's now back in France after being taken to India for scrapping.
Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:22 pm
Just a thought, but what about if a section of carrier was cut out for use as a museum-type display, like about a 45' wide section across the beam? You could have an aircraft on top, with a section of hangar deck below etc etc. Not as exciting maybe as a full carrier, but sure would take up a lot less room, and it would be dang interesting to boot; you could include a big chunk of the island or elevator. There would be what, five or ten levels to visit? Cool.
Since we are on a ship note, I cannot figure out why the Queen Mary, an English ship, is preserved and moored in L.A., while the SS United States sits stripped and forlorn in Pennsylvania. Huh?
cheers
greg v.
Since we are on a ship note, I cannot figure out why the Queen Mary, an English ship, is preserved and moored in L.A., while the SS United States sits stripped and forlorn in Pennsylvania. Huh?
cheers
greg v.
Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:28 pm
The fights not over yet.....looks like they have until 2010 to pull all the strings they've got
Former shipmates fight to save USS Forrestal
http://www.examiner.com/a-751046~Former_shipmates_fight_to_save_USS_Forrestal.html
Shay
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Semper Fortis
Former shipmates fight to save USS Forrestal
http://www.examiner.com/a-751046~Former_shipmates_fight_to_save_USS_Forrestal.html
Shay
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Semper Fortis
Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:50 pm
I posted this a while back on a different thread, but this is Forrestal & Saratoga as they looked this past June in Newport, RI. Photo was taken by a friend of mine........
The Coasties in the picture are Ida Lewis & Juniper. While onboard Willow (just out of view in the picture) several weeks after this photo was taken, I had a perfect view of how rundown these lovely ladies have become. It's quite sad. They're swarming with work crews who are dismantling as much of the superstructures as possible.......I was also amazed at the sheer size of them...........Very impressive. They dwarf everything around them!
The Coasties in the picture are Ida Lewis & Juniper. While onboard Willow (just out of view in the picture) several weeks after this photo was taken, I had a perfect view of how rundown these lovely ladies have become. It's quite sad. They're swarming with work crews who are dismantling as much of the superstructures as possible.......I was also amazed at the sheer size of them...........Very impressive. They dwarf everything around them!
Wed Dec 12, 2007 1:27 pm
Tom,
You mentioned "making OSHA safe"......how right you are! Those bureaucrat scumbags at OSHA (Federal and state versions) are responsible for inflicting huge economic blows to many a business......and often for no good reason!
Believe me, I know from personal experience about the hair-brained demands these characters can make.
I can see clearly that certain rules and other ridiculous demands made by OSHA and there nutty sidekick, the EPA could easily shoot down all sorts of historic preservation projects.
Ted
You mentioned "making OSHA safe"......how right you are! Those bureaucrat scumbags at OSHA (Federal and state versions) are responsible for inflicting huge economic blows to many a business......and often for no good reason!
Believe me, I know from personal experience about the hair-brained demands these characters can make.
I can see clearly that certain rules and other ridiculous demands made by OSHA and there nutty sidekick, the EPA could easily shoot down all sorts of historic preservation projects.
Ted
Wed Dec 12, 2007 1:39 pm
chico wrote:Shay wrote:One thing I found interest was that the plans are to sink the Foreestal outside of diving range. I would have assume that they would to follow the Oriskany's example which is boosting diving tourism for the city of Pensacola.
My guess would be that associated costs of making the ship reasonably safe to dive is just to much hassle. Welding shut what needs to be welded, removing hazardous materials, signing the 647,983 Environmental waivers and liability release forms that need to be signed.
It's got to be far easier to just say "Sign here, here, and here. Ok, now it's officially YOUR problem."
nah. They're hiding Megatron i it before they sink it.
Wed Dec 12, 2007 1:50 pm
SaxMan wrote:What happened to the Cabot was simply an outrage. Here you have the NHC, claiming ownership over everything, and they basically washed their hands of the Cabot situation.
Yes, the loss of the Cabot was a terrible waste that still pains me to this day. But, to be fair, NHC didn't have a dog in that fight. The Cabot was transferred to Spain in 1967, sold outright to that county in 1972, and served in the Spanish Navy as SNS Dedalo (R01) until her donation to the New Orleans group in 1989. The US Navy had long since given up any claim of ownership.