Col. Culpepper's Flying Circus

[Mudge]

Watched this last nite. Thought it was gonna' be more flying than it was. WAAYY to much background on the CAF (for me anyway). Maybe I missed the point of the thing. I'm know this was in 1980 so there were a lot more warbirds there than there probably are now. If that's true, it's too bad.
Any of you that have been in the last 3-4 years want to jump in with a few reason's to attend? It's a pretty convoluted trip for us so I'd need a REALLY good reason. ie. LOTS of warbirds!

Did any of youse troops, that have seen the video, think some of the interviewees came off as kinda' over the top "right wing militia" types? I did and I are one. I thought there was a "militant" style of government bashing. I know they were talking, primarily, about the Carter administration, but it sounded like some of the sound bites we've heard from the "radical" militia types of the 90's. Maybe it was just me.

Mudge the sensitive

[Bill Greenwood]

Mudge, I haven't seen the video, but I am a CAF life member. Yes, some of the members are a little to the right of George Bush and are individual and opinionated. The tv station may have tried to emphasize this. But that' s not the main point of the CAF, rather it is the preservation of the historic planes. It used to be WWII, and they did some good things such as Fifi. I don't think the new shift of policy to Vietnam jets, is wise, but it doesn't negate all the past accomplisments. They have had some experienced and interesting members.

[Mudge]

Bill,
I'm considering becoming a member myself. Dues are a bit steep for me right now, thouogh. Maybe after tax refund.
I've got no problem with "right wingers". Hell, I are one. I guess the bluntness of the government bashing was more than we're used to hearing nowadays. (Except from the Dems.) I guess I shoulda' kept in mind that Carter had been in the White House for the preceding 4 years. The "bashing" therefore, was quite appropriate.

If you'd like to see it, shoot me a PM with your address and I'll send it to you.

Mudge the right winger

(Right Winger? Won't that make me go into an uncontrollable spin to the left?)

[Taylor Stevenson]

The CAF currently owns around 155 Warbirds (mainly from WWII), and the Midland, and Houston airshows have a great turnout. I would urge anyone who hasnt been to one of these two shows to go. Usually there are dozens of trainers and liaisons, a dozen or more fighters, and a dozen or so heavies, not to mention our Tora Tora Tora group. With reenactions of Pearl Harbor, Midway, Doolittle, Heroshima, Vietnam etc. it is an experience you should miss. The trip is worth it. As far as being right wing, you could say that there are alot of opinionated people, but the organization as a whole is united in the goal to spread patriotism and the appreciation for those who have served in the armed forces, although in today's environment I guess those two ideals are considered "Far Right".

Keep 'em Flying!
Taylor Dubya Stevenson

[Taylor Stevenson]

correction: "it is an experience you should'NT miss"

[Mudge]

Me109 wrote

As far as being right wing, you could say that there are alot of opinionated people, but the organization as a whole is united in the goal to spread patriotism and the appreciation for those who have served in the armed forces, although in today's environment I guess those two ideals are considered "Far Right".

I must be "Far Right" then.

(I guess anyone who grew up during WWII [ie. The "Greatest Generation"] can't help but be "Far Right"

Mudge the geezer

[Robbo]

Mudge, that's exactly the impression I formed when I watched the programme. I'm not sure whether it's supposed to be tongue in cheek, I suspect so.

[Bill Greenwood]

Mudge, I know two truisms on patriotism. "Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel", and "My country, to back it when it is right, and to try to put it right when it is wrong". If one is a "patriot" with no limits, no rules, then you may just as easily do the work of a Hitler, a Hirihito, a Nixon, a Stalin, a Saddam, as likely as if you were following a Lincoln or a Churchill. It may sound naive, but I think most times we can tell right from wrong; and it is some version of "Do unto others, etc." If our leaders are on the side of democracy and individual rights and freedom, then I'm probably in favor of them. If you grew up in WWII, you might think our govt. is always right and never see much past that; just as my Dad grew up in the depression and had a hard time seeing the dangers of inflation in the 70s and 80s. I grew to be an adult during Vietnam, so I saw a govt that started and contiued a war based on lies, tolerated atrocities both in Nam and the US, and made war on our people and even our system of govt and justice. Bush/Cheney and the Iraq war is like a replay of this on a smaller scale. I don't think the Roman govt would consider Jesus a patriot, or some US officials MLK a patriot. Who would you say was right?

[Dave Homewood]

Watched this last nite. Thought it was gonna' be more flying than it was. WAAYY to much background on the CAF (for me anyway). Maybe I missed the point of the thing.

Mudge, I'm sorry to read that you were disappointed. I think that as this was made for a 1980 British audience, and a wide audience who'd generally never heard of the Confederate Air Force rather than a warbird-centric audience like us, I think the amount of background provided on the Confederate Air Force was fine. It gave a great insight into the foundation, history and running of the CAF.

I first watched this when I was about 12 years old back in the early 1980's. I'd never ever heard of the CAF before seeing this TV show, and I found it fascinating. At that stage our NZ warbird scene was merely a couple of Harvards and Dominies not much more.

I was amazed that people could get that passionate about warbirds, and go to such lengths to support them. Even now with our flourishing warbird culture and industry here in NZ these days, I still don't think any group here has achieved that level of dedication or cult status.

The documentary really captured the imagination of this boy anyway, and many others who watched the video tape at our place over the years, seeing not only the aircraft but the wacky cult that surrounds them from way these members call themselves Colonels (why? It's so pointless it makes sense!) to the elusive and imaginary Colonel Culpepper as leader.

The only distasteful part of the documentary for me was the reporter playing dress ups in those hideous CAF uniforms that looked like they'd come from the wardrobes of the Thunderbirds puppets and Dolly Parton at the same time. That sequence was plain embarrassing to watch, he had far too much class to be donning such tat. (Well, it was the 1980's, hopefully the uniforms have improved in style now!)

Even then as a teenager I too picked up on the fact that the older CAF members interviewed came across as hardline militarist nutters who thought their Govt were pussies. For goodness sake the USA had enough weapons to destroy the world at least five times over. What more did they need?

However despite their warped political views, I still liked these old guys for their committment to save, rebuild and fly the aircraft of WWII as memorials to those who had fought and and those who had died. That is what attracted me to the idea of the CAF back then, and still does. I doubt I'd ever join as a member but I do appreciate their hard work.

I also loved the footage of Lefty Gardiner (?) taking the reporter for a very low ride in his P-51D.

All in all I thought the documentary was very well made. Whether it truly reflected the widespread feelings of the CAF back then is hard to tell from where I'm sitting but every documentary maker has to find an angle to run with, and as they were interviewing the founding members and very senior men from the CAF, it had to stand for something at the time. Views have probably changed now, one hopes. I think now it must be more a issue of keeping the aircraft flying, and safely, than keeping them battle ready.

I have to saw I also love the opening scenes with the sunrise behind all those planes, and the closing scenes with the song "Ghost Squadron In The Sky" that emulates Johnny Cash.

[Obergrafeter]

The understatement of the century........".a flight with Lefty is a less than boring experience"

[Old Shep]

Interesting thread simply because I've never seen this video and I've been a member since 1979! Only thing I've seen from that era was the Ghost Squadron video with Lowell Thomas doing the voice over.

About the political leanings of the members then...I think this forum works best when politics is left out. I joined the CAF for the airplanes, and am on the General Staff today because of the airplanes; period. I've met some really good folks and a few real jerks along the way, but let's focus on the airplanes and leave politics alone.

And, Bill, you are still invited to the CAF show in Midland, but I wouldn't voice your opinion too loudly about Midland native son GWB.

Old Shep

[Mudge]

HOLY CRAP...OK TROOPS. I GIVE UP! I'M SORRY! Some here have taken what I said WAAYY beyond what I meant it to be. Simply my OPINION. Right or wrong, it's only my OPINION.
It wasn't meant to start a major BASH!

Mudge the innocent victim

[Bill Greenwood]

Mudge, as Dave wrote so well, back in the early days when the CAF started, (I came into warbirds in 83 and became a life member) many historic planes were being scrapped or lost. Lloyd Nolen, Lefty Gardner, Connie Edwards, and others started out small with the stated mission " to preserve the combat planes of WWII". I think the Confederate name was sort of a joke. Some sponsors saw it as racsists so it was changed to Comemerative, still CAF. I think the history is interesting, these guys were combat vets, Lefty was in bombers I know, and the early guys were crop dusters and Stearman type pilots. As for the uniforms, I don't feel right wearing one, but fine for those who do,especialy those who earned them. Lot's of good things were done, and there is always room for improvement. Members are aware that we need to improve our safety record, and I'd like to see more young, female and minority members. There is a chapter in Cheasapeak, Va. that should welcome visitors, and you don't have to join to be a fan. It is a big organization with lot's of planes, chapters, shows, and interesting people. One thing I like about the Midland show is compared to Oshkosh there is more flying.

[Bill Greenwood]

Mudge, another organization is EAA in Oskosh Wi., of course. They have some Warbird squadrons also, maybe in your area, They have more members, but also include many other parts of aviation.Many owners and pilots are members of both, and AOPA as well for general aviation. For your interest in getting some warbird flying time; you certainly don't have to be a pilot to do that. You might get more out of it it you had some training, and we'd like to welcome another pilot, but don't let it put you off. There are a lot of dual control warbirds, some T-34, Chipmunk, L Birds are not that expensive to operate as the bombers and fighters are. T-6 s are fairly plentiful and are definitly a Warbird experience. Owners can always use help paying for expenses, but if that is out of the budget, maybe you can help wash or do other support work and eventually get a ride.Sometimes it is a matter of being there at the right time. Sometimes I have had a seat availble and have taken some of the controllers and ground volunteers at Oskosh. Good luck.

[astixjr]

Just a point of clarification here. Many people think that the terms "left wing" and "right wing" when talking politics, are references to the words "liberal" and "conservative". In truth, the term "right" is synonymous with the word "correct". The confusion started when the liberals got tired of being members of the "wrong wing".