Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:56 am
Gary,
Well, the B-24L photo link worked out, and the EAA chapter idea worked out, so I'm gonna' give this brainstorming thing just one more try (A mind is a terrible thing to waste, so I use mine sparingly).
Concerning your desire for more detail concerning the tail section/gun mount/etc. of the B-24A, have you considered another Consolidated product of similar vintage -- the PB2Y Coronado?
http://www.nasjax.navy.mil/command_info ... y_1943.htm
The only one I know of is at Pensacola. I took a few photos of her in June, 2005, but am sure I didn't get any detailed shots of the tail section (and certainly not the interior). Is it possible that the structure of the Coronado could help you in your task, or have you already pursued this angle? Perhaps the engineering drawings for the PB2Y are more extensive than the scraps with which you're forced to work now?
Like I said, just thinking out loud.
Well, the B-24L photo link worked out, and the EAA chapter idea worked out, so I'm gonna' give this brainstorming thing just one more try (A mind is a terrible thing to waste, so I use mine sparingly).
Concerning your desire for more detail concerning the tail section/gun mount/etc. of the B-24A, have you considered another Consolidated product of similar vintage -- the PB2Y Coronado?
http://www.nasjax.navy.mil/command_info ... y_1943.htm
The only one I know of is at Pensacola. I took a few photos of her in June, 2005, but am sure I didn't get any detailed shots of the tail section (and certainly not the interior). Is it possible that the structure of the Coronado could help you in your task, or have you already pursued this angle? Perhaps the engineering drawings for the PB2Y are more extensive than the scraps with which you're forced to work now?
Like I said, just thinking out loud.
Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:05 am
Dan K wrote:Gary,
Well, the B-24L photo link worked out, and the EAA chapter idea worked out, so I'm gonna' give this brainstorming thing just one more try (A mind is a terrible thing to waste, so I use mine sparingly).
Concerning your desire for more detail concerning the tail section/gun mount/etc. of the B-24A, have you considered another Consolidated product of similar vintage -- the PB2Y Coronado?
http://www.nasjax.navy.mil/command_info ... y_1943.htm
The only one I know of is at Pensacola. I took a few photos of her in June, 2005, but am sure I didn't get any detailed shots of the tail section (and certainly not the interior). Is it possible that the structure of the Coronado could help you in your task, or have you already pursued this angle? Perhaps the engineering drawings for the PB2Y are more extensive than the scraps with which you're forced to work now?
Like I said, just thinking out loud.
Interesting suggestion, Dan. But it looks to me like the Coronado has a turret style tailgunner's section, rather than the sliding door arrangement that we have. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not voting this idea off the island, I'm just making an observation. I'll contact the folks at Pensacola to see if they can help me out with this.
Thanks again for the tip!
Gary
Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:21 am
retroaviation wrote: Interesting suggestion, Dan. But it looks to me like the Coronado has a turret style tailgunner's section, rather than the sliding door arrangement that we have.
I'm also not sure if the tail position evolved from flexible mount to turret. There must be at least one Coronado nut, err, fanatic on the WIX who knows the answer.
Lil
Fri Jan 12, 2007 5:49 am
OK Gary, I've been at work for a few nights in a row. So I have been patiently (not!) waiting for the 0330hrs "State of the Lil" address for the past couple of days...(LOL). Must be having withdrawal symptoms.. Keep it going bro! Alan
Re: Lil
Fri Jan 12, 2007 7:04 am
Alan Brooks wrote:OK Gary, I've been at work for a few nights in a row. So I have been patiently (not!) waiting for the 0330hrs "State of the Lil" address for the past couple of days...(LOL). Must be having withdrawal symptoms.. Keep it going bro! Alan
Maybe he's catching up on all the sleep he's missed out on over the past 3 months!
John
Fri Jan 12, 2007 7:34 am
YAAAAWWWNNNN!!!!! Yep, that's what I've been doing......sleeping. You caught me. You believe that, right? 
I'll hopefully have a fresh update for y'all later today. We've got some pretty cool forward progress happening, so I'll make sure y'all stay informed.......after another nap, of course.
Gary
I'll hopefully have a fresh update for y'all later today. We've got some pretty cool forward progress happening, so I'll make sure y'all stay informed.......after another nap, of course.
Gary
Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:50 pm
Let the man sleep every now and then!
Fri Jan 12, 2007 11:16 pm
retroaviation wrote:YAAAAWWWNNNN!!!!! Yep, that's what I've been doing......sleeping. You caught me. You believe that, right?
I'll hopefully have a fresh update for y'all later today. We've got some pretty cool forward progress happening, so I'll make sure y'all stay informed.......after another nap, of course.
Gary
Need to hook him up with Starbucks
Lynn
Sat Jan 13, 2007 5:14 am
Sorry for the delay, but here is your belated update.....
We have a couple of extra volunteers here right now and along with the two or three semi-regular volunteers that have been showing up, there are signs of forward progress. One of our volunteers, Dave Miller, is taking pictures of his own and is writing down his experience for me to post here later. For now, here are a few photos from me regarding what project he's on....
Dave got started on the window installation for the tunnel gun compartment. This was one of those neat little things that the factory just threw a scab patch over and moved on. So the first thing Dave had to do was to just remove the little stringer splices that had been put in place along the fuselage and then mark the locations for the window frames. Fellow WIXer, Steve Corbett, had made these window frames a while ago and they work quite well.......
Again, I'll let Dave tell you later in his words how the process went, but I just snapped a couple of pictures as I went by occasionally, so this is how I saw the progress develop. When he started cutting the skins out for the windows, he used a large holesaw on the corners to make the radiuses, and then just used the saw blade on the die grinder to cut out the straight portions. After that, he just polished up the edges.........
Once the holes were cut out, he filled in the empty rivet holes that were exposed when removing the old stringer splices.........
I had a few issues to attend to yesterday afternoon, so I had to leave earlier than usual. However, when I got here this morning, I saw that he has finished the window installation on the right side (the white stuff is the protective film on the Lexan), and has started on the left side. I would imagine that he'll have this project finished today...........
So what have I been doing this whole time? Good question. The first part of last week was mostly spent trying to take care of the obligatory clerical issues of my job, parts ordering, and so on. I was able to finish making the bracketry to hold the tracks for the tailgunner's doors in place, however. And, later in the week, I started trying to design a roller that would work for the doors. It took me four or five prototypes before I was happy with the design, size and so on, but before I left work, I managed to get a set of rollers fabricated (20 in all). My mind just wasn't with me for the last five or so I built and I'm not happy with the quality of them. So, after I post this update, I will go back out and remake those.
The first thing I did was find some brass bar stock and drilled the hole in the center........
Then I cut the outer diameter (O.D.) down to the dimension needed for the lower tracks. It turned out that the upper tracks required a much smaller O.D. roller........
Then I used the part-off tool to cut the grove in the roller that the track will rest in........
The next step was to just start the last cut that will separate this roller from the rest of the bar stock so that I can file the sharp edges down. And just so y'all know, the photo of me holding the file is for reference only. I use both hands to stabilize the file while the lathe is turning. This type of equipment eats fingers, hands, and anything else it can get ahold of. So that's just something to keep in mind if some of these pictures just don't look like "action" shots............
Once the sharp edges are filed down, I just finish parting the roller off and move on to the next one........
After lots of repetitive work, here are twenty new tailgunner's door rollers. Like I said though, I'll be making five or six replacements this morning..........
Okay, I hope that tides y'all over for now with the updates. We have some other stuff going on and I'll see about getting that posted a little later. Questions and comments are of course welcomed.
Oh, and trust me, as much as I'd like to say it's true, sleeping is NOT what I've been doing lately.
Gary
We have a couple of extra volunteers here right now and along with the two or three semi-regular volunteers that have been showing up, there are signs of forward progress. One of our volunteers, Dave Miller, is taking pictures of his own and is writing down his experience for me to post here later. For now, here are a few photos from me regarding what project he's on....
Dave got started on the window installation for the tunnel gun compartment. This was one of those neat little things that the factory just threw a scab patch over and moved on. So the first thing Dave had to do was to just remove the little stringer splices that had been put in place along the fuselage and then mark the locations for the window frames. Fellow WIXer, Steve Corbett, had made these window frames a while ago and they work quite well.......
Again, I'll let Dave tell you later in his words how the process went, but I just snapped a couple of pictures as I went by occasionally, so this is how I saw the progress develop. When he started cutting the skins out for the windows, he used a large holesaw on the corners to make the radiuses, and then just used the saw blade on the die grinder to cut out the straight portions. After that, he just polished up the edges.........
Once the holes were cut out, he filled in the empty rivet holes that were exposed when removing the old stringer splices.........
I had a few issues to attend to yesterday afternoon, so I had to leave earlier than usual. However, when I got here this morning, I saw that he has finished the window installation on the right side (the white stuff is the protective film on the Lexan), and has started on the left side. I would imagine that he'll have this project finished today...........
So what have I been doing this whole time? Good question. The first part of last week was mostly spent trying to take care of the obligatory clerical issues of my job, parts ordering, and so on. I was able to finish making the bracketry to hold the tracks for the tailgunner's doors in place, however. And, later in the week, I started trying to design a roller that would work for the doors. It took me four or five prototypes before I was happy with the design, size and so on, but before I left work, I managed to get a set of rollers fabricated (20 in all). My mind just wasn't with me for the last five or so I built and I'm not happy with the quality of them. So, after I post this update, I will go back out and remake those.
The first thing I did was find some brass bar stock and drilled the hole in the center........
Then I cut the outer diameter (O.D.) down to the dimension needed for the lower tracks. It turned out that the upper tracks required a much smaller O.D. roller........
Then I used the part-off tool to cut the grove in the roller that the track will rest in........
The next step was to just start the last cut that will separate this roller from the rest of the bar stock so that I can file the sharp edges down. And just so y'all know, the photo of me holding the file is for reference only. I use both hands to stabilize the file while the lathe is turning. This type of equipment eats fingers, hands, and anything else it can get ahold of. So that's just something to keep in mind if some of these pictures just don't look like "action" shots.
...........
Once the sharp edges are filed down, I just finish parting the roller off and move on to the next one........
After lots of repetitive work, here are twenty new tailgunner's door rollers. Like I said though, I'll be making five or six replacements this morning..........
Okay, I hope that tides y'all over for now with the updates. We have some other stuff going on and I'll see about getting that posted a little later. Questions and comments are of course welcomed.
Oh, and trust me, as much as I'd like to say it's true, sleeping is NOT what I've been doing lately.
Gary
Sat Jan 13, 2007 6:28 am
Gary
Thanks for the update. Its been said before but its worth repeating, this is the finest aviation related thread on the internet at the moment, thanks to taking the trouble to post it.
Thanks for the update. Its been said before but its worth repeating, this is the finest aviation related thread on the internet at the moment, thanks to taking the trouble to post it.
Sat Jan 13, 2007 6:53 am
Well, when Dave came in this morning, he asked me to post his update for him since he's not crazy about typing on computers. A portion of the following photos may be somewhat of a repeat to the previous post, but they are from Dave's perspective. I kind of figured y'all might want to read someone else's views on this project other than just mine. So, the following is in Dave Miller's words.........
I got to MAF on Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at about 1:00 p.m. The day before arriving to Midland, I had my tools shipped via FedEx after Gary's advice to do so. If you are a specialist of any sort, you know that mechanics are more comfortable using their own stuff. I would recommend to anyone that is coming to Midland to help Gary to ship some of their favorite tools ahead of time so that they are there when you get there.
Upon arriving and checking that what I shipped was there, I got to work on installing two tunnel gunner's right side windows. They had been in there originally, but were removed and skinned-over sometime long ago. Gary already had the window frames here, so I got started removing some of the stringer splices that were put in when the old windows were skinned over.
Once that was done, it was just a matter of placing the frames where you want them and drilling and clecoing them in place.
Draw your cutout using the frame with your Sharpie.
Cut the skin out with the holesaw on your radius and straight cuts with a saw wheel. Sand smooth with the flapper wheel.
CAF blueprint....
I had some holes to fill where the stringer splices were, so I riveted them up. Now I'll make the Lexan windows that the frames will hold in place once they are screwed in place.
The left side windows have been started and should be finished soon. It is just more of the same work that was done to the right side.
Dave Miller (via Gary)
I got to MAF on Thursday, Jan 11, 2007 at about 1:00 p.m. The day before arriving to Midland, I had my tools shipped via FedEx after Gary's advice to do so. If you are a specialist of any sort, you know that mechanics are more comfortable using their own stuff. I would recommend to anyone that is coming to Midland to help Gary to ship some of their favorite tools ahead of time so that they are there when you get there.
Upon arriving and checking that what I shipped was there, I got to work on installing two tunnel gunner's right side windows. They had been in there originally, but were removed and skinned-over sometime long ago. Gary already had the window frames here, so I got started removing some of the stringer splices that were put in when the old windows were skinned over.
Once that was done, it was just a matter of placing the frames where you want them and drilling and clecoing them in place.
Draw your cutout using the frame with your Sharpie.
Cut the skin out with the holesaw on your radius and straight cuts with a saw wheel. Sand smooth with the flapper wheel.
CAF blueprint....
I had some holes to fill where the stringer splices were, so I riveted them up. Now I'll make the Lexan windows that the frames will hold in place once they are screwed in place.
The left side windows have been started and should be finished soon. It is just more of the same work that was done to the right side.
Dave Miller (via Gary)
Sat Jan 13, 2007 8:47 am
as always gary, dave and crew, beautiful.
is there any chance (when you find a few free minutes) of having some rear 3/4 before and current pics posted? i think it would give all of us staring at our monitors a good feel as to just how far removed from a LB30 she is now.
does anyone know what sort of lining was used in the radio operators position (as seen on page
?
gary, do you intend to replicate this at some stage? i say at some stage as from the pic you could spend weeks/months just on what can be seen.
also a Q for the researchers, what costal comand squadrons flew B24A's?
thanks,
henry
is there any chance (when you find a few free minutes) of having some rear 3/4 before and current pics posted? i think it would give all of us staring at our monitors a good feel as to just how far removed from a LB30 she is now.
does anyone know what sort of lining was used in the radio operators position (as seen on page
?
gary, do you intend to replicate this at some stage? i say at some stage as from the pic you could spend weeks/months just on what can be seen.
also a Q for the researchers, what costal comand squadrons flew B24A's?
thanks,
henry
Sat Jan 13, 2007 9:28 am
henry wrote:is there any chance (when you find a few free minutes) of having some rear 3/4 before and current pics posted? i think it would give all of us staring at our monitors a good feel as to just how far removed from a LB30 she is now.
does anyone know what sort of lining was used in the radio operators position (as seen on page
gary, do you intend to replicate this at some stage? i say at some stage as from the pic you could spend weeks/months just on what can be seen.
I'll see what I can do with getting you those pictures. It all looks the same to me right now.
But we're getting there.
I will try to duplicate the radio operator's section exactly like the original, however, I doubt it'll be completed (with interior panels and whatnot) this year. Still looking for that elusive wooden radio operator's chair. Would love to have that in here, but will go with another style if needed for this season.
Gary
Sat Jan 13, 2007 2:56 pm
Now that Dave's got both sides of the tunnel gunner's windows finished, what do you suppose he's up to with a drill and window frames up in the cockpit area?
Gary
Gary
Sat Jan 13, 2007 4:43 pm
Moon Roof???
Great progress
She's really starting to come together.
Shay
_____________
Semper Fortis
Great progress
She's really starting to come together.
Shay
_____________
Semper Fortis