Warbird Information Exchange

I agree. At the NMUSAF we srestored several aircraft that have been taken back by the NASM. We restored the Lysander, the FW-190, the San Francisco flying boat, and a few others.

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Chris Henry
EAA Aviation Museum Manager

The one piece of information we are all missing is under what terms aircraft are loaned out to begin with. If the contract clearly states under what terms the piece may be re-claimed and that any work put into it by the holding entity is at their own expense then so be it. You will see from my earlier post that I don't think this is right, but we can't know the whole story without the other side of the equation.

Bill.

I am sure. What sucked is that the ones at the NMUSAF were put on loan to us form the NASM. We restored them, and as they came out of the shop, they suddenly had room for them. The seaplane was on display for a while, but the otheres were pretty quick. Then the NASM wanted us to help fund the restoration of the Enola Gay. Gen. Metcalfe said no, and said that either the NASM display it in one piece, or it would be moved to Wright-Pat. Sometimes the Gen. can be a pain, but if it wasn't for him there would be a lot of aircraft in worse shape. He has also done a great job at the NMUSAF. Not saying he is always right mind you. Rick knows what I mean.

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Chris Henry
EAA Aviation Museum Manager

I believe that the NASM policy was to loan aircraft to other museums with the proviso that they would restore them to NASM specs and that the loanee would be guaranteed the loan of that aircraft for a set number of years. Sometimes the loan far outlasted the time originally guaranteed. I think that the main factor was what NASM had room for in Wash. With the opening of Udvar-Hazy all bets were off because now there is room for 220 additional aircraft. Some of these aircraft were at Silver Hill with many others being recalled from loan to other museums.

The National Museum of Naval Aviation was impacted too. The Sparrowhawk comes to mind, the N3N hanging in the dining hall at Annapolis is another.

The N3N required a rerestoration, it had fared badly at the hands of the Midshipmen.

You got me on who owns the Enola Gay. But if they own it, why did they want us to fund it?

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Chris Henry
EAA Aviation Museum Manager

You're not referring to the "Dora" are you?

Yes it is owned by the NASM but it has been display in Dayton since before I was in high School and is still there today.

In fact as I recall the only "recent" work it has seen has been getting it's original wings reattached after a 60 year swap.

Are you talking about different "Butcher Bird"?

Shay
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Semper Fortis

At a conference center? That's great... While the A-12 may have been kept outside, it was well cared for and the public was actually able to see it, even the cockpit on special occasions. So, being indoors at CIA headquarters puts the chances of the public ever being able to see it again at somewhere between zero and zero?

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Dan Johnson

Seems like the perfect place to put an A-12 that's prone to being soaked in saltwater !

Remember guys, I am on your side here. I thin kit was the ME-109 that I was talking about. The Lysander for sure. The only reason the the NASM put the Enola Gay on display is becasue people pushed them to do it. And that restoration is only a cosmetic one. She has alot of her systems in storage. Now you have to remember that you are talking to someone who first hand sees what outdoor display has done to the Memphis Belle. AL lbecause politicians got involved. Gen. Metcalfe and Linda Morgan recieved death threats over the deal. All for what? So that the Belle can take her place of honor. When the Belle comes out of restoration in 7 years, the museum will have Shoo Shoo Baby and Memphis Belle on display. Two of the most historical B-17's out there. The NASM contacted us about getting the Baby. Gen. Metcalfe told them to piss up a rope, since they have a B-17G, and B-17D Swoose. I agree.

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Chris Henry
EAA Aviation Museum Manager

What does the saltwater reference refer to?

Bill

The Mobile A-12 at the Battleship Alabama Park was inundated with saltwater by Katrina, along with the rest of the planes in the Aircraft Pavilion. The back wall of the pavillion is no more than 20 ft from the Mobile Bay shoreline. Pictures after the flood went down showed the YF-17 with seaweed hanging out of the inlets. The A-12 was in similar shape.

I thought this topic was about the Minn. A-12, didn't see where we made a jump to Alabama.

Bill.

I think Rick was saying that the A-12 with the seaweed should be moved before the one that is in a museum, and being upkept.

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Chris Henry
EAA Aviation Museum Manager

Just FYI to all, this story is a front page issue in the Wall Street Journal. I'm glad these USAF siezures are getting press coverage. It pains me to see these museum volunteers getting their pride and joy aircraft stripped from them.

taylor

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Taylor Stevenson

Some of these USAF seizures have saved very rare and endagered aircraft. Remember The Memphis Belle was one of these seizures. If we did not take it back, it would have been destroyed. Not saying that the volunteers in Memphis didn't do their best, or put there heart in soul in to it, or that the plane would be here today without them. But for the good of the aircraft it was moved to the right place. I think that the NMUSAF is very correct sometimes to remove an aircraft and place it else where. I don't feel that this A-12 needed to be moved, but it is going to be on display indoors every day. The Conference Center form what I understand is going to be near the Udvar Hazy Facility at Dulles, and part of it will be open to the public. Including where this aircraft is going. Now this might change as I am not in the CIA, and only know what certain people are allowed to tell me.

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Chris Henry
EAA Aviation Museum Manager