More B-49
Sun Feb 04, 2007 11:15 pm
someone asked if I had more pictures of the wing.
Well...ya a couple.
Well...ya a couple.
Sun Feb 04, 2007 11:30 pm
Very nice, Jack, thanks.
The lineup of wings was taken by a company photographer. The XB-35 to YB 49 jet conversion took place on the company ramp. Notice that some are farther along in the conversion process than others. A few weeks later the order to scrap them in place was sent down and a govt team showed up and started hacking them apart. The Northrop employess were forced to watch and the USAF ordered no photos of the scrapping.
The lineup of wings was taken by a company photographer. The XB-35 to YB 49 jet conversion took place on the company ramp. Notice that some are farther along in the conversion process than others. A few weeks later the order to scrap them in place was sent down and a govt team showed up and started hacking them apart. The Northrop employess were forced to watch and the USAF ordered no photos of the scrapping.
Mon Feb 05, 2007 12:17 am
Hi Jack...Hi RickH,
Funny thing about your comment Rick. My father was actually there when the Flying Wings were cut up. After he got out of the Air Force, he went to Northrop in California (I think that's what he said anyway), for sheetmetal school. He told me that all of the Northrop employees were very upset about the way these visionary aircraft were just scrapped. He spent a long career in the airlines until his retirement at age 62. For myself I just "followed in his footsteps" by going into aviation and the airlines.
On a side note to the Northrop Company, from what my Dad has told me, the story is that Mr. Northrop had, for his own private aircraft, a P-61, which he flew quite abit.
I can't remember the exact name of the documentary that was either on the History Channel or the Discovery Channel. But Mr. Northrop was never the same after the government scrapped his dream. But, when he was confined to a wheelchair in his golden years due to infirmaty, he was cleared to visit a hangar where he did not know what was going on. When they brought him into the hangar and saw the brand new B-2, he felt vindicated of his vision of a flying wing.
The only bad thing about the XB-35 and the XB-49 was that the technology of the day couldn't keep up with what the aircraft was. It wasn't until the advent of computers and their additional controls that the B-2 Flying Wing could be made practical.
The really sad part, in the documentary, was that between the then Secretary of Defense and the CEO of Convair/General Dynamics was really "out to get" Northrop. Which, I feel anyway, is why Northrop's F20 Tigershark never saw the light of production. As the story goes, the Secretary of Defense and the CEO of Convair/General Dynamics basically told Mr. Northrop that he was GOING to sell his company to Convair. When Mr. Northrop told them to go pound sand, the government basically blackballed the Northrop Company from government contracts. It seems that Convair and the Sec. Defense were in bed together to get production of the B-36 rolling along.
Given the idea that hindsight is always 20/20....which would you rather have in your arsenal ? A B-36 "Aluminum Overcast" or a B-49 bomber that would have ushered in the modern age of stealth 50 years ahead of schedule ??
Anyway...just my two cents worth.....
Paul
Funny thing about your comment Rick. My father was actually there when the Flying Wings were cut up. After he got out of the Air Force, he went to Northrop in California (I think that's what he said anyway), for sheetmetal school. He told me that all of the Northrop employees were very upset about the way these visionary aircraft were just scrapped. He spent a long career in the airlines until his retirement at age 62. For myself I just "followed in his footsteps" by going into aviation and the airlines.
On a side note to the Northrop Company, from what my Dad has told me, the story is that Mr. Northrop had, for his own private aircraft, a P-61, which he flew quite abit.
I can't remember the exact name of the documentary that was either on the History Channel or the Discovery Channel. But Mr. Northrop was never the same after the government scrapped his dream. But, when he was confined to a wheelchair in his golden years due to infirmaty, he was cleared to visit a hangar where he did not know what was going on. When they brought him into the hangar and saw the brand new B-2, he felt vindicated of his vision of a flying wing.
The only bad thing about the XB-35 and the XB-49 was that the technology of the day couldn't keep up with what the aircraft was. It wasn't until the advent of computers and their additional controls that the B-2 Flying Wing could be made practical.
The really sad part, in the documentary, was that between the then Secretary of Defense and the CEO of Convair/General Dynamics was really "out to get" Northrop. Which, I feel anyway, is why Northrop's F20 Tigershark never saw the light of production. As the story goes, the Secretary of Defense and the CEO of Convair/General Dynamics basically told Mr. Northrop that he was GOING to sell his company to Convair. When Mr. Northrop told them to go pound sand, the government basically blackballed the Northrop Company from government contracts. It seems that Convair and the Sec. Defense were in bed together to get production of the B-36 rolling along.
Given the idea that hindsight is always 20/20....which would you rather have in your arsenal ? A B-36 "Aluminum Overcast" or a B-49 bomber that would have ushered in the modern age of stealth 50 years ahead of schedule ??
Anyway...just my two cents worth.....
Paul
Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:20 am
Ya know, I've never really looked into the history of that intriguing airplane.
It sure seemed like a brillant design, but why was it cancelled in such an "Avro Arrow" style fashion?
Was it a capable performer or was its flying characteristics that caused its demise?
Cheers,
David
It sure seemed like a brillant design, but why was it cancelled in such an "Avro Arrow" style fashion?
Was it a capable performer or was its flying characteristics that caused its demise?
Cheers,
David
Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:21 am
I forgot to add...
What was the bubble in the back used for?
-David
What was the bubble in the back used for?
-David
Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:23 am
The story goes much deeper.
A friend of mine, now deceased, knew that I was researching the wing technology and we were talking about his AF experiences. He knew Glenn Edwards personally and in a bar they were discussing the wing and Edwards' impressions of it. Edwards told him " that it was one of the finest aircraft he'd ever flown."
Ahead of the technology ? Hardly, though that is the story put out by the USAF. In 1948, General Roger Ramey, commander of the 8th Air Force flew the YB-49 and said "it was the fastest bomber he'd ever flown and that it was an airplane with a real future". In 1948, Bob Cardenas took the first YB-49 from Muroc ( Edwards) to Andrews nonstop, 2,258 miles at an average speed of 511 mph. The YB-49 could out turn a P-80 and outclimb it. It stayed aloft for 9 hours unrefueled and covered a distance of 3000 miles. It was known to be unseen by radars of its day. Actual flight tests were run against coastal radar stations and they couldn't see it until it was directly overhead. I have a video that shows the 172 ft wing being dutch rolled as it comes toward the camera plane, as it pulls along side the camera plane the pilot rolls into a near 90 degrees of bank and makes a 360 degree turn AROUND the camera ship ! As he completes the turn the pilot rolls wings level and disappears into the distance. Ever seen a B-36 in a 90 degree bank ? Ever seen a B-36 run away from anything ?
The slight oscillation common to a tailless design was adressed by Honeywell at Jack Northrop's request. They were never allowed to fit the autopilot that was developed for that purpose.
The Chairman of the Board of the parent company( Atlas Aviation ) that owned a majority of Consolidated stock was Floyd Odlum, Jackie Cochran's husband. It wasn't the Sec Def it was Stuart Symington, the first Sec AF. The aircraft that Northrop was supposed to let Convair build was the RB-49 that was in Jack's original post. The General who signed the AF purchase orders who was at the meeting where Symington ordered Northrop to merge with Convair became President of Convair a year or two later.
A book that should be read is Jack Northrop and the Flying Wing, the real story behind the Stealth Bomber. The author is Ted Coleman who is a former Vice President and director of Northrop Aircraft Company. Many of the things that happened with Northrop and the Wing, he lived through. It was written in 1988.
According to Coleman, Jack Northrop was in a wheel chair and couldn't speak by Oct 1980. Jack Northrop was shown the drawings of the secret B-2. Folks there said that they could tell that he was very pleased that the Northrop Flying Wing would fly again. He passed away in Feb. 1981. Some have said that as he held a model of the B-2 he is supposed to have said " Now I know why God has kept me around for so long". The quote may be an aviation equivalent of an urban legend.
A friend of mine, now deceased, knew that I was researching the wing technology and we were talking about his AF experiences. He knew Glenn Edwards personally and in a bar they were discussing the wing and Edwards' impressions of it. Edwards told him " that it was one of the finest aircraft he'd ever flown."
Ahead of the technology ? Hardly, though that is the story put out by the USAF. In 1948, General Roger Ramey, commander of the 8th Air Force flew the YB-49 and said "it was the fastest bomber he'd ever flown and that it was an airplane with a real future". In 1948, Bob Cardenas took the first YB-49 from Muroc ( Edwards) to Andrews nonstop, 2,258 miles at an average speed of 511 mph. The YB-49 could out turn a P-80 and outclimb it. It stayed aloft for 9 hours unrefueled and covered a distance of 3000 miles. It was known to be unseen by radars of its day. Actual flight tests were run against coastal radar stations and they couldn't see it until it was directly overhead. I have a video that shows the 172 ft wing being dutch rolled as it comes toward the camera plane, as it pulls along side the camera plane the pilot rolls into a near 90 degrees of bank and makes a 360 degree turn AROUND the camera ship ! As he completes the turn the pilot rolls wings level and disappears into the distance. Ever seen a B-36 in a 90 degree bank ? Ever seen a B-36 run away from anything ?
The slight oscillation common to a tailless design was adressed by Honeywell at Jack Northrop's request. They were never allowed to fit the autopilot that was developed for that purpose.
The Chairman of the Board of the parent company( Atlas Aviation ) that owned a majority of Consolidated stock was Floyd Odlum, Jackie Cochran's husband. It wasn't the Sec Def it was Stuart Symington, the first Sec AF. The aircraft that Northrop was supposed to let Convair build was the RB-49 that was in Jack's original post. The General who signed the AF purchase orders who was at the meeting where Symington ordered Northrop to merge with Convair became President of Convair a year or two later.
A book that should be read is Jack Northrop and the Flying Wing, the real story behind the Stealth Bomber. The author is Ted Coleman who is a former Vice President and director of Northrop Aircraft Company. Many of the things that happened with Northrop and the Wing, he lived through. It was written in 1988.
According to Coleman, Jack Northrop was in a wheel chair and couldn't speak by Oct 1980. Jack Northrop was shown the drawings of the secret B-2. Folks there said that they could tell that he was very pleased that the Northrop Flying Wing would fly again. He passed away in Feb. 1981. Some have said that as he held a model of the B-2 he is supposed to have said " Now I know why God has kept me around for so long". The quote may be an aviation equivalent of an urban legend.
Mon Feb 05, 2007 2:00 am
GREAT stuff, Jack & Rick. Quite fascinating "back story". I will have to find that book. Thanks for posting, both of y'all.
Mon Feb 05, 2007 2:20 am
excellent thread, gives real perspective!!
Mon Feb 05, 2007 6:47 am
Great photos of the flying wing Jack.
Mon Feb 05, 2007 9:33 am
Cool photos, and some interesting stories. I have a hard time believing that such a behemoth could out-turn a P-80 though, or that it was so stealthy that radars of the day couldn't see it until it was on top of them. Is there any documentary evidence to support this? If so, then that really is remarkable! I still think it's a crime that none were saved for posterity. You would have thought that they would have been useful as technology demonstrators at the very least.
All the best,
Richard
All the best,
Richard
Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:04 am
What a crying shame...Money and Ego are terrible things in the wrong hands.
One of these machines should sit in the USAF Museum.
One of these machines should sit in the USAF Museum.
Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:24 am
It is a terrible shame that politics killed the wing. The destruction of the wing set the USAF back 50 years.
Richard the radar tests are documented. The performance of the aircraft is also well documented. This thing was fast for it's day and the rate of climb is unbelievable. A video is out there, it is called The Wing Will Fly is available on Amazon. Coleman's book is also on Amazon.
Why no surviving examples? Simple, Stuart Symington, the first SECAF, wanted no evidence left behind. The Smithsonian and the USAF Museum both wanted one, obviously they were denied. The RB-49 was not in the lineup when the other aircraft were scrapped. It lasted for about a year, tucked away, the Air Force found out about it and the scappers team showed up and destroyed it. They wanted to erase the wing as a mistake, and without any examples the officials could perpetuate the story that the wing was not suitable for USAF needs. They failed because the N9M was hidden away and survived. The N9M is the last of 4 1/3rd scale aircraft built as proof of concept aircraft and were later used to train the Air Force Wing pilots. The contemporary flight reports written by the guy who flys it for Planes of Fame are enlightening.
The scrappers cut these big wings up into pieces small enough to fit into dump trucks and the pieces were hauled away to an undisclosed location.
After the wing was cancelled, things changed at Northrop. The management changed and a new board of directors came on board. They decided not to continue to antagonize the SECAF by trying to push the wing. They saw the US Govt as their only customer and they were trying to save the company. The company purged all of the wing documentation and people within the company did not speak of it. They were to focus on the Snark project and the F-89. The F-89 is the last aircraft Jack Northrop designed.
Richard the radar tests are documented. The performance of the aircraft is also well documented. This thing was fast for it's day and the rate of climb is unbelievable. A video is out there, it is called The Wing Will Fly is available on Amazon. Coleman's book is also on Amazon.
Why no surviving examples? Simple, Stuart Symington, the first SECAF, wanted no evidence left behind. The Smithsonian and the USAF Museum both wanted one, obviously they were denied. The RB-49 was not in the lineup when the other aircraft were scrapped. It lasted for about a year, tucked away, the Air Force found out about it and the scappers team showed up and destroyed it. They wanted to erase the wing as a mistake, and without any examples the officials could perpetuate the story that the wing was not suitable for USAF needs. They failed because the N9M was hidden away and survived. The N9M is the last of 4 1/3rd scale aircraft built as proof of concept aircraft and were later used to train the Air Force Wing pilots. The contemporary flight reports written by the guy who flys it for Planes of Fame are enlightening.
The scrappers cut these big wings up into pieces small enough to fit into dump trucks and the pieces were hauled away to an undisclosed location.
After the wing was cancelled, things changed at Northrop. The management changed and a new board of directors came on board. They decided not to continue to antagonize the SECAF by trying to push the wing. They saw the US Govt as their only customer and they were trying to save the company. The company purged all of the wing documentation and people within the company did not speak of it. They were to focus on the Snark project and the F-89. The F-89 is the last aircraft Jack Northrop designed.
Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:45 am
Great pictures, and excellent background on the Wing.
Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:56 am
Impressive, look how big it is compared to the people standing besides it.
Found more pics here http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/systems/b-49-pics.htm
Found more pics here http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/systems/b-49-pics.htm
Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:57 am
I saw the N9M fly at an airshow a few years ago. It not only sounded great, it was awesome watching it fly. I got to get right up to it before it flew. They did a great job restoring it.