I actually don't know if I really want to get involved in the discussion or not- I am hearing a lot of valid arguments against the schools. However, I actually TEACH at one- and I see both types of students- lazy useless ones, and ones who will be great mechanics someday.
The problem we have is we are trying to push them against time- they are being rushed through the courses. However, the ones who WANT to learn to do this excel at it. I finished the course myself last year, and got my A&P in April. I maintained a 4.0 throughout, and had almost perfect attendance.(I got real sick one day, and was out for two- I could barely walk, but would have been there if I could have!) I did my very best at every class I attempted- I wanted to get the best grades, learn the most I could. I push my students to do the same, although the attitudes I have to deal with in some if them are ridiculous.
My class started with 24 students. 3 graduated 18 months later. 2 of us on time- the third took a job with USAir and had to attend their school, so his schedule got shifted. The other is a lead at Augusta now. (Of course his 10 years fixing helicopters in Columbia may have helped...)
There are slackers in every school nowadays- my sister is a professor at a major university, and her students are just as bad as some of mine. I get lazy asses who refuse to study, participate, and think they can show up whenever they want, and miss whatever they want. We don't need that type- but the people in the front are paid for QUANTITY, not QUALITY when it comes to recruiting students. Take the ads for the school OFF "The Jerry Springer SHow", and put them on History and Military Channels aircraft shows!
There are QUALITY students- and some of them are worth it from the get-go. I am getting to where I can tell which students want to be A&Ps, and which are just doing it to fill their time, and waste mine.
I get quite annoyed when one of my students fails to pass any exam. My tests are not just multiple guess- I also use oral exam style & vocabulary questions in their finals, trying to find a way to really gauge what they are learning. I am going to be adding other elements, but am still refining them. I am NOT teaching them to pass a test. I have told them this. I want them to know what the hel-l they are doing! I usually end up having to reteach subjects they should have learned in other classes, but failed to absorb.
This is an uphill battle, but one I feel is worth it. For me, I am using the time to build my skills with aviation maintenance. I have 5 years USAFR already, as a Crew Chief, so I am not locked into any singular field myself. I am working to teach others, and attempting to better my skills.
I read the students in my class the beginning of this discussion- it kinda bummed out some of them to hear what you guys thought of them and A&P schools... However, I used it to start a discussion about HOW we could improve our school & try to get a better reputation- and maybe some serious consideration for positions for those who actually work for their grades. It was good to get their opinions without BS and posturing- I don't blow sunshine up their...
I try to tell them the truth. I am also known for being one of the toughest graders in the school. If they don't know what they are talking about, they don't get passed, or at least not well. I have one student who is happy to have made his first "A" in my classes- after having breezed General.
Look- I have lots of stuff to say, but will just keep rambling. Let me put it this way: Quality students DO come out of the schools. But you need to research a little before you hire them- A bit of advice: DO give the new guys a shot- but call the school and ask for three things: First, their attendance records. We have to keep very detailed records regarding time missed, etc. If a student missed a lot of time there, then he probably did not have the dedication to the task at hand(school). Second, look at their academic records. See what kinds of grades they actually got. And see how many times they had to take a class, final, or project. Third, ask for a list of any instructors who would recommend them- and those who wouldn't. Then contact them and see why or why not. The instructors care & want only the best out there. We get paid either way, but we'd rather weed out the rotten ones early, but it doesn't always happen, as if they pass their tests, they pass the course. But if you ask us about a student, most likely we will remember stuff about them- and if they were not quality material, you'll find out. If they were, we are usually happy to recommend them. And you won't be sorry...
ALSO- A couple OTHER things you guys who deride A&P newbies can do to help improve the situation. Get with the local A&P school. Tell them exactly what you see as the problem with their "product". Any good businessman wants to satisfy his customers. Be prepared to work with them, and see if you can help institute some sort of internship program for students, to give them real world experience, and see what the job is really like. I'm not saying give them a 40 hour paying job- just something for a few hours a week, where they can come in and help you, and learn at the same time. Stop being part of the problem, and then crying about how lousy A&P students are, and how awful the schools are. Go and offer to help, and see how the students improve. See if you can't be part of the SOLUTION instead. (It was one of my students that suggested the unpaid internship concept...) You don't have to hire every one of them- set a realistic academic criteria for participation, and then the deserving ones will appear. And maybe when they finish school, they can use you as a reference- or call you "Boss", should you be so inclined. As I said to my students tonight- You get out of the A&P course what you put in to it. That goes for EMPLOYERS as well as STUDENTS.
I had recommendations from all my instructors when I graduated. 25 years of auto work, 5 years of USAFR & my A&P- they offered me a job!
My ultimate dream job is restorations. As long as I can make the house payment, and survive, I'd be happy working on antique/warbird a/c. I don't have great needs- I just love airplanes. And I can tell when one of my students does too.
Sorry for any implied ranting, just sharing my thoughts...
Robbie
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