Warbird Information Exchange

DISCLAIMER: The views expressed on this site are the responsibility of the poster and do not reflect the views of the management.
It is currently Mon Jun 23, 2025 5:13 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Classic Wings Magazine WWII Naval Aviation Research Pacific Luftwaffe Resource Center
When Hollywood Ruled The Skies - Volumes 1 through 4 by Bruce Oriss


Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 34 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:54 pm 
Offline
2000+ Post Club
2000+ Post Club

Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2004 2:38 pm
Posts: 2662
Location: Nashville, Tennessee
The Whittington May have waited too long to sell it for a fortune. Kermit has one as does the Collings Foundation. Paul Allen is deceased. Who else could financially afford to tackle such a project?
If the paid to have the wings and fuselage jigged up and rebuilt, it would sell. It looks “too far gone” to the average person.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:07 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:27 am
Posts: 5614
Location: Eastern Washington
Aside from the nose, what Liberator does Weeks have?

Even though Allen has passed away, FHCAM seems to be thriving, another acquisition probably isn't out of the question.

Right now they seem preoccupied with the 262. Certainly they don't seem to have been working on their B-17. (Why the secrecy? I can understand keeping something under wraps before you buy it, but afterwards?).

They may feel it is more important to finish rare types first rather than do a type already represented by flying examples.

_________________
Remember the vets, the wonderful planes they flew and their sacrifices for a future many of them did not live to see.
Note political free signature.
I figure if you wanted my opinion on items unrelated to this forum, you'd ask for it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:54 pm 
Offline
1000+ Posts!
1000+ Posts!

Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 4:50 pm
Posts: 1028
Quote:
Aside from the nose, what Liberator does Weeks have?


A complete but very tired ex Indian AF example. I don't think it has flown in close to 20 years.

_________________
Always looking for WW2 Half-Tracks and Parts.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:01 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 1:11 am
Posts: 21
The remnants of AL557 are no longer in outside storage at Fort Collins, CO. [EDIT: This is just an assumption based on imagery that is 21 months old. It could still be outside somewhere -- in CO, in FL, or somewhere else.] From Google Earth satellite images, Liberator wreckage is seen on Sept 7, 2016, but it has been removed by the next image, dated Oct 14, 2017. I don't know where they are stored currently. The Trade-A-Plane ad says "LOCATION: Utica, FL, USA" - not that the wreckage has been moved there.

This aircraft has no USAAF history, so the US insignia on the wing underside must be bogus, perhaps from after the 1990 recovery by the Alaska Aviation Heritage Museum or from after the airframe's purchase in 1996 by the Lone Star Flight Museum. Or, who knows, post-2001, when the Whittington brothers owned it.


Attachments:
FtCollins,Lib,7Sep16_14Oct17,alt.jpg
FtCollins,Lib,7Sep16_14Oct17,alt.jpg [ 242.92 KiB | Viewed 1364 times ]

_________________
RAF LIBERATORS OVER BURMA (subtitled FLYING WITH 159 SQUADRON) by Bill Kirkness DFM and Matt Poole, published by Fonthill Media

https://www.amazon.co.uk/RAF-Liberators-Over-Burma-Squadron/dp/1781556563/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1525180922&sr=8-1&keywords=matt+poole

https://www.amazon.com/RAF-Liberators-over-Burma-Squadron/dp/1781556563/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1546836560&sr=8-1&keywords=bill+kirkness+matt+poole


Last edited by Matt Poole on Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:36 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2010 11:44 am
Posts: 847
Location: DAL glidepath
JohnB wrote:
Aside from the nose, what Liberator does Weeks have?

Even though Allen has passed away, FHCAM seems to be thriving, another acquisition probably isn't out of the question.

Right now they seem preoccupied with the 262. Certainly they don't seem to have been working on their B-17. (Why the secrecy? I can understand keeping something under wraps before you buy it, but afterwards?).

They may feel it is more important to finish rare types first rather than do a type already represented by flying examples.


According to a fellow I spoke with who works there, FHCAM hasn't been taking a more aggressive approach on the B-17 because of a preference for single engine aircraft. Essentially, they can restore and maintain many single engine types for the same cost as one multi-engine.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:56 am 
Offline
2000+ Post Club
2000+ Post Club
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2004 3:00 pm
Posts: 2148
Location: Utah
YEARS ago when I talked to the Whittington Bros (representative?) about the plane I was told the wings came from somewhere else and were in a "much better" state than the rest of the fuselage. Seems like at that point (at least 10 years ago) they wanted $250K IIRC.

Oh for love of a large lotto win.

Tom P.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 1:36 pm
Posts: 750
Matt Poole wrote:
The remnants of AL557 are no longer in outside storage at Fort Collins, CO. From Google Earth satellite images, Liberator wreckage is seen on Sept 7, 2016, but it has been removed by the next image, dated Oct 14, 2017. I don't know where they are stored currently. The Trade-A-Plane ad says "LOCATION: Utica, FL, USA" - not that the wreckage has been moved there.
This aircraft has no USAAF history, so the US insignia on the wing underside must be bogus, perhaps from after the 1990 recovery by the Alaska Aviation Heritage Museum or from after the airframe's purchase in 1996 by the Lone Star Flight Museum. Or, who knows, post-2001, when the Whittington brothers owned it.

I don't know for sure, but I would assume that the aircraft is in Florida. Ron Buccarelli is the owner. He has been quietly collecting parts for that project for quite some time, but I don't know how much progress he made, if any.

There are three huge strikes against that aircraft: 1) it is a total basket case and will require a very expensive restoration. It wouldn't surprise me if that aircraft required ten's of millions of dollars to restore into a flying example. If someone would be happy with a static, it could be done for much less; 2) it is only an LB-30 example and not even a "real B-24". Like it or not, that affects desirability; 3) even airworthy B-24's don't garner nearly as much attention as the B-17 or B-29. The Collings foundation and the CAF make less money off those airframes than other "traditional" bombers for airshows, passenger rides, film work, etc.

Though I would love to see it restored to flying condition, I think the best we can hope for would be a static restoration. Because of the lack of desirability due to the previous reasons and the fact that it has been for sale for several decades through several previous owners with very little interest, unfortunately, the future is not bright for this aircraft.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:31 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:27 am
Posts: 5614
Location: Eastern Washington
PinecastleAAF wrote:
Quote:
Aside from the nose, what Liberator does Weeks have?


A complete but very tired ex Indian AF example. I don't think it has flown in close to 20 years.



Ex-Tallichet?

have clearly haven't been paying attention to the B-24 population, I thought the Collings B-24 was the Tallichet example...at any rate, I wasn't aware there were two ex-Indian flyers (in addition to the Pima example) in the country.

_________________
Remember the vets, the wonderful planes they flew and their sacrifices for a future many of them did not live to see.
Note political free signature.
I figure if you wanted my opinion on items unrelated to this forum, you'd ask for it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 6:53 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 1:11 am
Posts: 21
wendovertom wrote:
YEARS ago when I talked to the Whittington Bros (representative?) about the plane I was told the wings came from somewhere else and were in a "much better" state than the rest of the fuselage.


Thanks, Tom, for this new piece of info. It sure would help in understanding why the underside of the wing had American markings.

My guess is that AL557 would be more popular in the UK than the US, since its wartime service was with the British. However, the airframe has been through conversion rebuilds over its years in service. To take it back to a wartime configuration would involve considerable guesswork.

I’ve never seen a photo of AL557 when on 159 Sqn, even though it was with this unit in India for ten and a half months. I know it never flew on bombing ops (missions), but does that mean it contained no bomb bay? I’ve today discovered one more copy of a flight logbook having a 159 Squadron and AL557 link), and the airman (pilot) flew six times on AL557, all during practice out of Salbani, India. What is interesting is that two of these flights were listed in the logbook as “BOMBING PRACTICE”.

Two of the other logbooks I have also record “BOMBING PRACTICE” for one of these same flights. In other words, three of the seven airmen whose logbooks have an AL557 link were in the air together on this training flight.

It seems unlikely that AL557 would have been used for this specific bombing practice without a working or semi-functional bomb bay.

On the other hand, clearly AL557 never was flown on actual bombing ops. However, this could be explained by the fact that AL557 only arrived on 159 Squadron at Salbani, India on July 10, 1943 -- during the monsoon season, when 159 Sqn bombing ops were scarce. Only two bombing ops were flown from Salbani from this date until two weeks later, July 24, when the Liberator II (the early-model Lib on 159 Sqn; AL557 would have been designated a Liberator II) flew its final 159 Sqn op.

After July 24, 159 Sqn flew Mk III Libs (B-24D equivalents) on ops through 1943. So, then, AL557 was sort of late to the party. It would then have been used for training – pilots, navigators, and wireless operators, at the very least, and apparently it was used for general duties.

Of the seven logbook copies I have with a link to AL557, three belonged to pilots, one to a navigator, and three to wireless operator/air gunners whose duties aboard AL557 were wireless operator, not air gunner tasks. I have no idea whether AL557 carried a single gun.

_________________
RAF LIBERATORS OVER BURMA (subtitled FLYING WITH 159 SQUADRON) by Bill Kirkness DFM and Matt Poole, published by Fonthill Media

https://www.amazon.co.uk/RAF-Liberators-Over-Burma-Squadron/dp/1781556563/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1525180922&sr=8-1&keywords=matt+poole

https://www.amazon.com/RAF-Liberators-over-Burma-Squadron/dp/1781556563/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1546836560&sr=8-1&keywords=bill+kirkness+matt+poole


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:49 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 1:11 am
Posts: 21
Over on the Historic Aviation forum, user mikeeepannell reported that the Liberator remnants are still in outdoor storage at Fort Collins, CO. I found this location on Google Earth imagery dated Oct 14, 2017, only 130-140 yards from where they had been previously stored on the side of a hangar.


Attachments:
2019,location,AL557,FtCollins,1,crop.jpg
2019,location,AL557,FtCollins,1,crop.jpg [ 291.88 KiB | Viewed 1035 times ]
2019,location,AL557,FtCollins,2,crop.jpg
2019,location,AL557,FtCollins,2,crop.jpg [ 310.45 KiB | Viewed 1035 times ]

_________________
RAF LIBERATORS OVER BURMA (subtitled FLYING WITH 159 SQUADRON) by Bill Kirkness DFM and Matt Poole, published by Fonthill Media

https://www.amazon.co.uk/RAF-Liberators-Over-Burma-Squadron/dp/1781556563/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1525180922&sr=8-1&keywords=matt+poole

https://www.amazon.com/RAF-Liberators-over-Burma-Squadron/dp/1781556563/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1546836560&sr=8-1&keywords=bill+kirkness+matt+poole
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:02 pm 
Offline
1000+ Posts!
1000+ Posts!
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 10:08 pm
Posts: 1181
Location: Tulsa, OK
I'm a huge B-24 fan. But does anyone else think this would be a hard sell? If it was a B-24D I think it would be lots and lots easier. With the LB-30/B-24A you miss out on the engine cowlings that are a signature piece for the B-24, your turrets are different, and that model doesn't have any significant US combat history. That said, I can see that an organization that just really needs a B-24 could acquire one here in a reasonable way. Personally, I think that if the Smithsonian wanted to finally acquire a B-24 this would be an easy way to get one and then spend 2 decades restoring it (like they do for most other things anyways.) And since it wouldn't ever fly again, you wouldn't have to replace quite so much of the structure. If an organization is going to spend money to restore a B-24 to flight in the next decade (and I'm just not sure that is ever going to happen again, unless Kermit wants to fly his) I would think that a J model would be strongly preferred, with a D next. This one just won't do it for most people. Not to mention the Doc-esque cubic dollars it would take to get this into flying shape.
kevin

_________________
FOUND the elusive DT-built B-24! Woo-hoo!!!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:02 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 9:13 pm
Posts: 149
Location: "Out Californee Way"
The trade-a-plane link is no longer active. Did it sell?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:21 am 
Offline
2000+ Post Club
2000+ Post Club
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2006 7:18 pm
Posts: 2050
Location: Meriden,Ct.
JohnB wrote:
PinecastleAAF wrote:
Quote:
Aside from the nose, what Liberator does Weeks have?


A complete but very tired ex Indian AF example. I don't think it has flown in close to 20 years.



Ex-Tallichet?


have clearly haven't been paying attention to the B-24 population, I thought the Collings B-24 was the Tallichet example...at any rate, I wasn't aware there were two ex-Indian flyers (in addition to the Pima example) in the country.


I think Kermit Weeks ended up with Tallichett's B-24, (Joe).

Phil

_________________
A man's got to know his limitations.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 3:58 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:46 pm
Posts: 543
phil65 wrote:

I think Kermit Weeks ended up with Tallichett's B-24, (Joe).

Phil


Published today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZYtoeocBuc


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:53 am 
Offline
2000+ Post Club
2000+ Post Club
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2006 9:42 pm
Posts: 2707
Location: NP, NJ, USA
menards wrote:
phil65 wrote:

I think Kermit Weeks ended up with Tallichett's B-24, (Joe).

Phil


Published today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZYtoeocBuc


What a time capsule!

_________________
Share your story: Rutgers Oral History Archive http://oralhistory.rutgers.edu/


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 34 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 35 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group