Or how about a B-24 LB-30 kit!!!!

[marine air]

The Whittington May have waited too long to sell it for a fortune. Kermit has one as does the Collings Foundation. Paul Allen is deceased. Who else could financially afford to tackle such a project?
If the paid to have the wings and fuselage jigged up and rebuilt, it would sell. It looks “too far gone” to the average person.

[JohnB]

Aside from the nose, what Liberator does Weeks have?

Even though Allen has passed away, FHCAM seems to be thriving, another acquisition probably isn't out of the question.

Right now they seem preoccupied with the 262. Certainly they don't seem to have been working on their B-17. (Why the secrecy? I can understand keeping something under wraps before you buy it, but afterwards?).

They may feel it is more important to finish rare types first rather than do a type already represented by flying examples.

[PinecastleAAF]

Aside from the nose, what Liberator does Weeks have?

A complete but very tired ex Indian AF example. I don't think it has flown in close to 20 years.

[Matt Poole]

The remnants of AL557 are no longer in outside storage at Fort Collins, CO. [EDIT: This is just an assumption based on imagery that is 21 months old. It could still be outside somewhere -- in CO, in FL, or somewhere else.] From Google Earth satellite images, Liberator wreckage is seen on Sept 7, 2016, but it has been removed by the next image, dated Oct 14, 2017. I don't know where they are stored currently. The Trade-A-Plane ad says "LOCATION: Utica, FL, USA" - not that the wreckage has been moved there.

This aircraft has no USAAF history, so the US insignia on the wing underside must be bogus, perhaps from after the 1990 recovery by the Alaska Aviation Heritage Museum or from after the airframe's purchase in 1996 by the Lone Star Flight Museum. Or, who knows, post-2001, when the Whittington brothers owned it.

Attachments

Last edited by Matt Poole on Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[StangStung]

Aside from the nose, what Liberator does Weeks have?

Even though Allen has passed away, FHCAM seems to be thriving, another acquisition probably isn't out of the question.

Right now they seem preoccupied with the 262. Certainly they don't seem to have been working on their B-17. (Why the secrecy? I can understand keeping something under wraps before you buy it, but afterwards?).

They may feel it is more important to finish rare types first rather than do a type already represented by flying examples.

According to a fellow I spoke with who works there, FHCAM hasn't been taking a more aggressive approach on the B-17 because of a preference for single engine aircraft. Essentially, they can restore and maintain many single engine types for the same cost as one multi-engine.

[wendovertom]

YEARS ago when I talked to the Whittington Bros (representative?) about the plane I was told the wings came from somewhere else and were in a "much better" state than the rest of the fuselage. Seems like at that point (at least 10 years ago) they wanted $250K IIRC.

Oh for love of a large lotto win.

Tom P.

[OD/NG]

The remnants of AL557 are no longer in outside storage at Fort Collins, CO. From Google Earth satellite images, Liberator wreckage is seen on Sept 7, 2016, but it has been removed by the next image, dated Oct 14, 2017. I don't know where they are stored currently. The Trade-A-Plane ad says "LOCATION: Utica, FL, USA" - not that the wreckage has been moved there.
This aircraft has no USAAF history, so the US insignia on the wing underside must be bogus, perhaps from after the 1990 recovery by the Alaska Aviation Heritage Museum or from after the airframe's purchase in 1996 by the Lone Star Flight Museum. Or, who knows, post-2001, when the Whittington brothers owned it.

I don't know for sure, but I would assume that the aircraft is in Florida. Ron Buccarelli is the owner. He has been quietly collecting parts for that project for quite some time, but I don't know how much progress he made, if any.

There are three huge strikes against that aircraft: 1) it is a total basket case and will require a very expensive restoration. It wouldn't surprise me if that aircraft required ten's of millions of dollars to restore into a flying example. If someone would be happy with a static, it could be done for much less; 2) it is only an LB-30 example and not even a "real B-24". Like it or not, that affects desirability; 3) even airworthy B-24's don't garner nearly as much attention as the B-17 or B-29. The Collings foundation and the CAF make less money off those airframes than other "traditional" bombers for airshows, passenger rides, film work, etc.

Though I would love to see it restored to flying condition, I think the best we can hope for would be a static restoration. Because of the lack of desirability due to the previous reasons and the fact that it has been for sale for several decades through several previous owners with very little interest, unfortunately, the future is not bright for this aircraft.

[JohnB]

Aside from the nose, what Liberator does Weeks have?

A complete but very tired ex Indian AF example. I don't think it has flown in close to 20 years.

Ex-Tallichet?

have clearly haven't been paying attention to the B-24 population, I thought the Collings B-24 was the Tallichet example...at any rate, I wasn't aware there were two ex-Indian flyers (in addition to the Pima example) in the country.

[Matt Poole]

YEARS ago when I talked to the Whittington Bros (representative?) about the plane I was told the wings came from somewhere else and were in a "much better" state than the rest of the fuselage.

Thanks, Tom, for this new piece of info. It sure would help in understanding why the underside of the wing had American markings.

My guess is that AL557 would be more popular in the UK than the US, since its wartime service was with the British. However, the airframe has been through conversion rebuilds over its years in service. To take it back to a wartime configuration would involve considerable guesswork.

I’ve never seen a photo of AL557 when on 159 Sqn, even though it was with this unit in India for ten and a half months. I know it never flew on bombing ops (missions), but does that mean it contained no bomb bay? I’ve today discovered one more copy of a flight logbook having a 159 Squadron and AL557 link), and the airman (pilot) flew six times on AL557, all during practice out of Salbani, India. What is interesting is that two of these flights were listed in the logbook as “BOMBING PRACTICE”.

Two of the other logbooks I have also record “BOMBING PRACTICE” for one of these same flights. In other words, three of the seven airmen whose logbooks have an AL557 link were in the air together on this training flight.

It seems unlikely that AL557 would have been used for this specific bombing practice without a working or semi-functional bomb bay.

On the other hand, clearly AL557 never was flown on actual bombing ops. However, this could be explained by the fact that AL557 only arrived on 159 Squadron at Salbani, India on July 10, 1943 -- during the monsoon season, when 159 Sqn bombing ops were scarce. Only two bombing ops were flown from Salbani from this date until two weeks later, July 24, when the Liberator II (the early-model Lib on 159 Sqn; AL557 would have been designated a Liberator II) flew its final 159 Sqn op.

After July 24, 159 Sqn flew Mk III Libs (B-24D equivalents) on ops through 1943. So, then, AL557 was sort of late to the party. It would then have been used for training – pilots, navigators, and wireless operators, at the very least, and apparently it was used for general duties.

Of the seven logbook copies I have with a link to AL557, three belonged to pilots, one to a navigator, and three to wireless operator/air gunners whose duties aboard AL557 were wireless operator, not air gunner tasks. I have no idea whether AL557 carried a single gun.

[Matt Poole]

Over on the Historic Aviation forum, user mikeeepannell reported that the Liberator remnants are still in outdoor storage at Fort Collins, CO. I found this location on Google Earth imagery dated Oct 14, 2017, only 130-140 yards from where they had been previously stored on the side of a hangar.

Attachments

[tulsaboy]

I'm a huge B-24 fan. But does anyone else think this would be a hard sell? If it was a B-24D I think it would be lots and lots easier. With the LB-30/B-24A you miss out on the engine cowlings that are a signature piece for the B-24, your turrets are different, and that model doesn't have any significant US combat history. That said, I can see that an organization that just really needs a B-24 could acquire one here in a reasonable way. Personally, I think that if the Smithsonian wanted to finally acquire a B-24 this would be an easy way to get one and then spend 2 decades restoring it (like they do for most other things anyways.) And since it wouldn't ever fly again, you wouldn't have to replace quite so much of the structure. If an organization is going to spend money to restore a B-24 to flight in the next decade (and I'm just not sure that is ever going to happen again, unless Kermit wants to fly his) I would think that a J model would be strongly preferred, with a D next. This one just won't do it for most people. Not to mention the Doc-esque cubic dollars it would take to get this into flying shape.
kevin

[Wilson]

The trade-a-plane link is no longer active. Did it sell?

[phil65]

Aside from the nose, what Liberator does Weeks have?

A complete but very tired ex Indian AF example. I don't think it has flown in close to 20 years.

Ex-Tallichet?


have clearly haven't been paying attention to the B-24 population, I thought the Collings B-24 was the Tallichet example...at any rate, I wasn't aware there were two ex-Indian flyers (in addition to the Pima example) in the country.

I think Kermit Weeks ended up with Tallichett's B-24, (Joe).

Phil

[menards]

I think Kermit Weeks ended up with Tallichett's B-24, (Joe).

Phil

Published today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZYtoeocBuc

[TAdan]

I think Kermit Weeks ended up with Tallichett's B-24, (Joe).

Phil

Published today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZYtoeocBuc

What a time capsule!