F117 Nighthawk to retire...

[ww2John]

After 25 years of service, the AF has announced they are retiring the F117 Nighthawk, but have not specified a date. The press release indicates its successor is the F22 Raptor.

Full press release here:

http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123030185

A question: Not for a minute to take anything away from any of its capabilities, its ground-breaking technologies, nor its combat mission history...however: The AF still refers to the F117 as a "fighter". (Yes, I know that F = fighter in USAF language.)

Correct me if I am wrong, its only mission (or primary mission) is either attack or bomber, yes?? Has any F117 ever had an air-to-air engagement with another fighter??

I always felt that the "F" designation was a budget fiction to get taxpayer funding for two very expensive "stealth" a/c development programs: F117 & B2.

Personally, I like the way they look in-flight. It does not look that good on the ground. And they have been effective in combat.

[PhantomAce08]

A question: Not for a minute to take anything away from any of its capabilities, its ground-breaking technologies, nor its combat mission history...however: The AF still refers to the F117 as a "fighter". (Yes, I know that F = fighter in USAF language.)

Correct me if I am wrong, its only mission (or primary mission) is either attack or bomber, yes?? Has any F117 ever had an air-to-air engagement with another fighter??

I always felt that the "F" designation was a budget fiction to get taxpayer funding for two very expensive "stealth" a/c development programs: F117 & B2.

I've always wondered about that whole "F" designation thing too

[Jack Cook]

I've always wondered about that whole "F" designation thing too

They called it a fighter should they could get someone to fly it. Sort of
harsh but true.

[RickH]

The designation F-117 was used to throw off those folks who follow budget allocations to find out what the next secret project is. 117 was used and was a throwback to the old system. ie: F-4 would have been the F-110 for the A.F. under the old designation.

Interesting note, all of the stab protractors that I have seen, that are used to set up the stab movement limits are marked F4H-1.

[bluethunder28]

Don't forget that she could carry air-to-air missle instead of bombs if they wanted her to.

[Randy Haskin]

The "F" designation was decided on as the permanent designation after the program went "white" because of limitations on bombers in the START and SALT agreements.

[M.P.]

F-117 flying again!?

Read text to this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvyaG7EIC18

Is this true or not

[warbird1]

F-117 flying again!?

Read text to this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvyaG7EIC18

Is this true or not

Wow, very interesting! It doesn't surprise me if they are still flying them as all the aircraft are "stored" at Tonopah Test Range airfield - the original place where the 117 was based when it was a black program. What I didn't know is that the Chinese have apparently developed a mock up of the 117 and are developing new missile seeker heads to use against it. So, the "unretired" 117's could possibly be used for OT&E against some kind of countermeasures with the new seeker heads.

I believe that video, btw. The guy that shot that has a long history of video taping unusual stuff at and around Nellis/Groom Lake for many years. I believe his credibility is good.

BTW, there is much anecdotal evidence that the SR-71 continued to fly long after it's retirement, so there is precedence for such a move on the part of the Air Force. A friend of mine, who was a trained military pilot, swore on his life, that he saw first-hand, an SR-71 flying after it's "official" retirement.

[12XU2A3X3]

those kids are great. i watch all their red flag recovery vids. gee, maybe the 49th is getting -117s again instead of the vipers that are supposed to replace their raptors ...

[Garth]

F-117 flying again!?
BTW, there is much anecdotal evidence that the SR-71 continued to fly long after it's retirement, so there is precedence for such a move on the part of the Air Force. A friend of mine, who was a trained military pilot, swore on his life, that he saw first-hand, an SR-71 flying after it's "official" retirement.

The thing about the SR-71 is that since there were so few of the series (including the A-12/Oxcart and the YF-12) and EVERY survivor has been saved, that the individual aircraft service histories are extremely well-documented.

That's not to preclude the possibility that there were some off-books Blackbirds. However, more likely is the possibility that your friend saw one of the several SR-71s that continued flying for NASA after both the early and late 1990s retirements from USAF service, with a true "final flight" occurring in late 1999.

[mustangdriver]

I said it once and say it again, the Blackbird flew long after retirement.

[Randy Haskin]

There's a reason the airplanes were sent to "storage" instead of cap't crunch.

[warbird1]

F-117 flying again!?
BTW, there is much anecdotal evidence that the SR-71 continued to fly long after it's retirement, so there is precedence for such a move on the part of the Air Force. A friend of mine, who was a trained military pilot, swore on his life, that he saw first-hand, an SR-71 flying after it's "official" retirement.

The thing about the SR-71 is that since there were so few of the series (including the A-12/Oxcart and the YF-12) and EVERY survivor has been saved, that the individual aircraft service histories are extremely well-documented.

That's not to preclude the possibility that there were some off-books Blackbirds. However, more likely is the possibility that your friend saw one of the several SR-71s that continued flying for NASA after both the early and late 1990s retirements from USAF service, with a true "final flight" occurring in late 1999.

He was very specific that they were not NASA birds. He implied that they were "off-book" Blackbirds, or ones that nobody knew about.

[RickH]

Is it possible, that by taking them from Holloman and sending them to "storage" far from prying eyes was a way to put the F117 back into the black ? The world thinks they are retired so the bad guys don't look for them ?

[warbird1]

Is it possible, that by taking them from Holloman and sending them to "storage" far from prying eyes was a way to put the F117 back into the black ? The world thinks they are retired so the bad guys don't look for them ?

I wouldn't think so. Keeping an aircraft "in the black" is very expensive and the very reason it was declassified back in '88 and eventually moved to Holloman from Tonopah. Tonopah has a few other highly classified "black" aircraft operating out of it, and it wouldn't make sense to take up space and resources trying to hide an old, obsolete, completely white aircraft.

I think the likely scenario is that the Air Force honestly did plan to retire the 117, but when this Chinese 117 popped up on the radar, they probably brought 1 or 2 airframes out of retirement to use for operational testing and evaluation for the possible Chinese threat. I seriously doubt they have more than a couple flying, IMO.

All speculation, of course.