Warbird Information Exchange

i remember at the corsair gathering in mt. comfort indiana the autograph line was 2 1/2 hours long, & all sorts of pigs were juggling all kinds of multiple stuff / items for the old geezer veterans to sign in the sweltering heat. it was obnoxious!! finally somebody said enough, & cut it off. i'm not against a nice momento autograph, but to take everything but the kitchen sink to be signed is just plain selfish.

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tom d. friedman - hey!!! those fokkers were messerschmitts!! * without ammunition, the usaf would be just another flying club!!! * better to have piece of mind than piece of tail!!

Very true man. I get a model diecast model or desktop model signed if I know I am going to meet a vet one on one, and they don't mind. If there is a line, I just get a signed photo, thank them for their service, and move along.

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Chris Henry
EAA Aviation Museum Manager

Hello All,

I was at the EAA Museum for a talk by one of the Tuskegee Airmen, and he signed autographs after his talk. One person brought, and expected him to sign about 20 different objects/books. Those of us standing in line for half an hour to wait for this clown were pretty annoyed. The speaker was very kind and very gracious, and signed everything this person put in front of him, but it seemed pretty ridiculous to me.

Apparently at least a couple of Apollo Astronauts don't sign in public anymore, because of the EBay hounds.

I hate to say this, but I once bought an XB-70 remnant, but it is my all-time favorite aircraft, so I don't feel too bad...

CO

I don't hink there is anything wrong with buying it, if your plans are to enjoy it.

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Chris Henry
EAA Aviation Museum Manager

Not entirely on-topic, but I once went to a Star Trek convention. I'm not a fanatical Trekkie, but Shatner and Nimoy were the guest speakers, and I thought it'd be cool to see them in person.

Anyway, during the Q&A after their talk, some guy in the audience stands up with an original animation "cel" from the Saturday morning cartoon featuring Kirk and Spock. He gave some lame-ass story about wanting to give it to a dying relative, and it would "mean so much" if Shatner and Nimoy would just autograph it. The audience rolled their collective eyes, and the actors kind of unconfortabely told him he'd have to go through their agents. Of course the "dying relative" story was utter sugar..he just wanted to exponentially increase the value of his trinket. Asshole.


SN

It is funny but I wrote Tom Cruise when the whole P-82 thing came about, to offer words support for the P-82. He sent a signed photo back as a thanks. Pretty cool I think.

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Chris Henry
EAA Aviation Museum Manager

Actually, most of the Apollo guys no longer sign...or at least no longer sign for free. They have been taken advantage of for so many years that some just gave up, while others decided that since their autograph is a commodity, they might as well be the ones making the profit (can't blame em, really).

when I met 'Bud' Anderson and 'Chuck' Yeager at an aviation-event in france back in 2003, I had most of my 357th FG related books and their biographies signed by them.....

would I ever sell such items ?

nah !

Martin

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Flying is easy: just learn how to throw yourself at the ground and miss

You know to be honest I have always thought buying an autograph was kind of lame anyways. When I have gotten an autograph in the past it has always been to sort of commemorate the time that I was able to meet one of my heroes and sort of a memento of that day. To purchase an autograph would mean little or nothing to me.

Agree with you 100% on that one rwd. Or if not met, at least asked personally by mail. For the same reason, I wouldn't see the point in asking for more than one.

August

I have some autographed stuff which I specifically requested the pilots sign to me (i.e. "To Lynn, best wishes" or whatever). I want these kind men to know I seek their autographs as a sign of respect, not as a way to make a quick buck.

I also met Gabby and his crew at the 2001 IPMS Nats- his caretaker asked for a donation, which I was happy to offer, as Gabby wasn't in great shape at that point. He kindly signed the cover of my Walkaround book, as did his crewmen and Frank Klibbe signed it for me later. NO ONE is gonna get that one from me... same with my Luftwaffe Codes and Markings book signed by Hans-Ekkehard Bob, Oskar Boesch, Horst Petzschler, Franz Stigler, and Günther Rall.

I also have a P-51 Warbird Tech book signed by Anderson, Goebel, Dahl, Archer, Alex Jefferson, Boots Blessee, and I think Peterson- have to go check it now. Got all those at the Gathering of Mustangs and Legends in 99, and of all the guys there, Yeager was the biggest ass of them all. Bud Anderson and Bob Goebel were the complete opposite- what kind fellows they were. And Robin Olds was there as well, got to chat with him but didn't have the book handy for him to sign. Point is, they're to ME, not for Ebay fodder.

I have no patience for those Ebay whores looking to turn a quick buck on the blood, sweat, and good name of a veteran.

Lynn

I have mixed feelings regarding both issues.

I have actually been considering making an illustration of the XB-70 crash, and have been at odds with myself over it. On the one hand, it would make a dramatic illustration memorializing an important historic event. On the other hand, there are people still living who might find it an unwelcome memory. And I would most certainly attempt to profit from it, since I simply don't have the financial freedom to spend hundreds of hours researching and painting artwork only to give it away. So where does that leave me ethically?

Regarding autographs, I've always rather resented the fact that I could spend weeks or months making an illustration, and never expect to earn more than 40 bucks for a print....but a simple, three-second signature from someone with more notoriety than me can triple its value instantly. Celebrity pilots often earn more from publishers than the artists themselves do on an edition of prints. The fact is, people want to own something rare and exclusive, and the signature vastly improves the marketability of the work. Does this make commercial artists shameless profiteers? What about the pilots? What about the people who buy the stuff? After all, it's the same picture, with or without the signature. The signature only increases its rareity. But why would you want something rare, if you have no intention of profiting from it? A sense of smug satisfaction? Bragging rights? Is status seeking any more noble than profiteering?

When exactly does profiteering from a rare artifact make that downward moral slide from the time-honored American Way to gratuitious capitalism? At what point does historical preservation become grave robbing? How long after a tragic event should we wait for the TV movie?

I find everyone's thoughts on this topic interesting. What do YOU think?

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What is red, furry and on your six?

As to the question of where a "second-hand" (i.e., not signed in your presence or at your request like the ones rwd and I prefer) autograph gets its value, it cannot only be because it is rare. Lots of things are rare, yet still worthless -- my own autograph, for example. Yes, people do buy them in the expectation that their value will go up, but nothing that people speculate on ever gets its value fully from that expectation. You may think that the value will go up and up, but somewhere at the end of the chain, anchoring the value is some hypothetical person who values it that much for himself. Someone who, for example, thinks the Van Gogh is so beautiful that it is worth millions to be able to see it on his wall. So then what is it about the famous fighter pilot autograph that makes it valuable to the ultimate purchaser?

I believe the answer, with all autographs, is the physical connection to the famous person. The name was written with a pen held by the hand of the hero. He touched that print in the process of signing it, and the autograph provides the evidence. That connection lends the mystique or presence (akin to Walter Benjamin's concept of "aura") to the object. Rooted in something primitive within us, it is like owning a piece of the person. So a fan who feels this physical connection strongly, and who greatly idolizes the signer, is likely to value the autograph a great deal. The feeling such a fan gets from the autograph is, I think, much more meaningful than smug satisfaction or bragging rights. That is what the speculators are counting on.

This would also explain why I personally don't value these second-hand autographs; it means that the fact that a war hero touched the thing for a few seconds at someone else's request just doesn't do it for me (I won't speak for rwd, but he might agree) in terms of creating enough presence to add value to the item; I need for it to be associated with some more personal connection. (It may also be that I don't hero-worship war heroes as much as many do.)

This concept of presence is of course also directly relevant to the value of warbirds and why it matters whether a warbird was a combat veteran, was flown by a famous ace, etc. (or that "George Washington slept here"). It even bears on issues in photography (and is one of the reasons I won't switch to digital). It is a common preoccupation of those interested in history and the past.

August

Obviously the Valkyrie is one of my favs too...in fact, about 8 years ago I bought a piece of the number two ship from the same seller on eBay. I paid $105 for it (crazy to think about it now ) but I was at the convergence of being newly online, having just discovered eBay, and with a bit too much dough burnin' the proverbial hole...the piece that I bought is about a foot long and maybe 6 inches wide and I think it was worth it. That being said, I don't exactly "share" it with anyone since it sits in my den among some other things. My "XB70" license plate means a lot more to me because I got it signed by Fitz Fulton up at the NMUSAF a few years ago. I can't imagine selling either of them.

I have bought several books that were signed by their authors, including one by Guenther Wendt and one by Shane Osborn that I didn't realize were signed until I got home and started to read them. They were just stacked among other copies on the shelf at the Smithsonian and at Huntsville.

I named my dog Yeager...anyone want to make me an offer?

Dave G.

most of the autographs i've got over the years are are momentos of my meeting them as well, & having a brush with history. most were very nice & gracious, with the exception of scott crossfield, like yeager........ funny how the 2 top rated u.s. test pilots had the bad attitude problems!!!

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tom d. friedman - hey!!! those fokkers were messerschmitts!! * without ammunition, the usaf would be just another flying club!!! * better to have piece of mind than piece of tail!!