Warbird Information Exchange

Can anyone tell me two things about the accident in which John Denver was lost? 1st. The name of the attourney that represented John, and 2nd. if possible the finding of cause for the accident, according to the NTSB report. I am familiar with news reports, but would like to get the facts. Thanks

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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

Go to www.ntsb.gov and follow the directions and you can get the ntsb report. The web site has a fair search engine to help look for the particular report.

Here it is.

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_i ... 9045&key=1

King, thanks very much for the report, it was about as I remembered it. Today, while skiing(perfect day) my friend and I were riding up the chairlift and were talking about Warbirds. The other guy overheard us and the converstion turned to acro planes, then to John Denver, then his accident. When I remarked about the poor design of a behind the back fuel selector, this new guy became irate and basically told me how stupid I was and that all I knew was from the news media. I told him that actually I got most of it from a NTSB investigtor I know. The whole ride is only about 7 minutes, but by the time we got to the top this guy was cursing at me. It was bizarre, and unpleasant on such a nice day. He claimed to be John Denver's lawyer, and that he handled the case for free. That's why I'd like to find out his name if anyone can. John was not a close friend, but I knew him, he had been to my house for a party once and I'd speak to him at the airport. It was a tragic loss, and seemed unecessary.

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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

This accident has one theme common to all too many accidents in homebuilts; that is that the builder has made a major modification to the original design, probably without clearing this with the designer, and the result is a major safety flaw. There are enough flying accidents that are hard to avoid, that really are accidental, but it is extra saddening and frustrating to see one that almost had to be a planned disaster.

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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

The accident was caused because the fuel valve was put in a place where it could not have been operated easily. I have built a Dragonfly Tri-gear and helped out on alot of homebuilts, Kitfox, Lancair, Glassaire, RVs and one thing I have done is to have the owner sit in the plane with the belts on and try to opeate the controls. If they could not reach a critical switch or valve without loosening the shoulder straps, I have them move it until they can.
The first theing John Denver should have done is change the valve location and saved the paint job for later.

I posted in the wrong thread. Doh!

My Luscombe had a brass Imperial fuel valve similar to the one that was installed in John Denver's plane. The fuel valve had to be taken apart annualy and lubed other wise the handle would be very hard to turn. Over time even lubing would not keep it from sticking and I would have to buy a new one. A couple years after Denver's accident I went to buy a new one and the valves were not for sale. I would be willing to bet that the manafacturer of the fuel valves had got sued because of Denver's accident and they took them off the market.

IIRC, Aircraft Spruce & Specialty who sold the fuel valve use on the plane was sued.

Brian....

More lawyers looking to get rich after someone dies:


LAWSUITS FLYING IN LIDLE CRASH
The families of former New York Yankees pitcher Cory Lidle and his flight instructor Tyler Stanger claim the crash of their Cirrus SR20 into a Manhattan apartment building was caused by a “catastrophic failure of the flight control system.” A statement released by Todd Macaluso, the lawyer representing the families of Lidle and Stanger, claims that FAA and NTSB data show that Cirrus aircraft have “a history of aileron failures” and “there have been other accidents involving flight control failures, several of which resulted in deaths.” The suit also names Teledyne, Hartzel Propeller, S-Tec, Honeywell and Justice Aviation. The NTSB has not yet determined a cause for the Oct. 11 crash, but an update to its preliminary report released in early November focuses on the role of a 13-knot crosswind in the accident and makes no mention of control anomalies. Cirrus has declined comment on details of the crash investigation. New York television station NY1 says the cause of the crash will determine whether Lidle’s family gets a $1 million insurance payout from Major League Baseball. Meanwhile, the owner of an apartment 13 floors above the impact point is suing Lidle’s family for $7 million, claiming the crash ruined his home. More...

Hey guys.......... LAWYERS DIDN"T CAUSE THE ACCIDENT

We don't get rich nor create causes of action. I didn't hear anything about control failures in this accident before now.

Seems like the widow is trying to get all SHE can. The guy that had his apartment wacked wants it put back in order.

I think if you fly around tall buildings, you should be FAMILIAR with flying around mountains (I am), They got too close and blown into the building, maybe there was a delay in correction ALA THurmon Munson, but it most likely was pilot error.

Still everyone will pay out something and Cirrus prices will go up $100k next year.

The first one that flames me can also say that "If it happened to their family they WOULDN"T SUE"

Mark H

Interestingly enought them has been no rumors, talk or whatever of lawsuits concerning Bob Guliford's Hawker Hunter in the neighborhood just north of me. Maybe there is hope The neighborhood strongly supported the continuation of the airshow after some loudmouths called for it's demise

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Don't touch my junk!!

Lawyers don't cause the accident but they do cause an ungodly expense for those of us wishing to fly. One of MANY examples. The PT-6 in my 8 seat F-90 are a minimum of 250K to overhaul. But the same engine in an agg plane is 80K. Why the difference, 8 seats to be sued for rather then 1. (The numbers may be off a little but the difference is incredibly clear).

And my family know without a doubt that I absulutely do not wish a lawsuit over any unfortunate accident that should befall me.
How in the world could anyone live in a mansion paid for by the death of a loved one, maybe because the propellor manufacturer had to pay big bucks because some dumb pilot ran out of gas.

How about the cub lawsuit where Piper was sued and lost because of faulty design (taildragger) that caused the illegally flown aircraft to crash into the truck parked on the runway to stop the pilot from taking off of the closed runway. There are countless examples of lawyers taking advantage of misinformed jurists about aviation. They prey on the danger mystique of flying

The damage once again also hinders the rides that all of us may or may not be able to take in aircraft due to the fear of liability. How about flying with 100K limit on the back seater. Why would anyone take that risk. At times it has been very difficult to obtain limits over one million for liability. I have heard recent stories of insurance companies just throwing that million on the table and walking away, leaving the pilot to defend himself on his own dime.

I make a point to make it very clear to anyone I do take up that this is a very old aircraft that was designed as a fighter. It is not as safe as a Cessna. And please make sure that you understand the inherent danger and don't take my kids inheritance away from them because I decided to let you in the backseat of my aircraft. Is that backwards or what. But neccessary in today's world.


OK so now I have burned some bridges but I had to get this off my chest.

..........................make sure he had enough fuel for his intended flight.......then changed the fuel valve.............then painted it.

If I as a pilot have an accident that is caused by pilot error, I hope my family doesn't sue. Nobody. Nada. How's that?