Uh-Oh.....
Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:51 pm
Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:56 pm
I think everyone knows what I think of this.
Tue Mar 06, 2007 10:00 pm
Yes, we do.
Last edited by m50a1ontos on Wed Mar 07, 2007 1:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Uh-Oh.....
Tue Mar 06, 2007 10:02 pm
And it will NOT be Yanks or Planes of Fame (who got their F-14 from Yanks anyhow).m50a1ontos wrote:Sombody's in trouble.
Tue Mar 06, 2007 10:10 pm
I hope Yanks and POF don't get in trouble over this...In all probablility, sombody at Mugu screwed up by releasing them w/o proper de-mill in the first place.
Tue Mar 06, 2007 10:11 pm
But on a good note that diver got the dog out of the lake.
F-14s
Tue Mar 06, 2007 10:37 pm
The planes will be partially dismantled and transported to the Aerospace Maintenance and Regeneration Center in Arizona.
And what shape will the planes be in when they come back? Might be better to send a crew from Arizona to Chino - less chance for incidental damage to the airframes (and if they feed 'em at Flo's Cafe, they'll probably finish the job quicker).
OPPPPPPPSSSSSSSSSSSS
Tue Mar 06, 2007 10:46 pm
Ooopps. Looks like I'm not flying the F-14 this summer.
Mark H
Mark H
Correct me if I am wrong
Tue Mar 06, 2007 10:53 pm
I don't quite understand the federal agent; when he said that they had to seize the F-14s to keep sensitive technology from foreign users.
The F-14 is an over thirty year old aircraft being retired from service; right?
The F-14 is in service with the AirForce of Iran; a potential enemy; right?
What potential enemy is it that we are guarding against? The Russians and Chinese have better tech. ( heck we subsidize Chinese students so they can attend our best universities, and; we send our high tech stuff over to China, so that they can build it for us in thier factories).
Are the feds that dumb? Or; do they think we are?
The F-14 is an over thirty year old aircraft being retired from service; right?
The F-14 is in service with the AirForce of Iran; a potential enemy; right?
What potential enemy is it that we are guarding against? The Russians and Chinese have better tech. ( heck we subsidize Chinese students so they can attend our best universities, and; we send our high tech stuff over to China, so that they can build it for us in thier factories).
Are the feds that dumb? Or; do they think we are?
Knuckleheads
Tue Mar 06, 2007 11:06 pm
Glad to see that while our guys are dying in WW Iraq, and our borders are sieves, that the DOD investigative arm in joint operation with Immigration and Customs Enforcement, is preventing F-14's from falling into Iranian hands. I will sleep soundly under this awesome ADIZ tonight, just knowing that wild-eyed Iranians won't be flying F-14's into our airspace....
This is what you get when you elect a coke head president- crazy paranoia from top down...
This is what you get when you elect a coke head president- crazy paranoia from top down...
Tue Mar 06, 2007 11:10 pm
There are all kinds of avionics boxes that have electronic components that are still considered technologically sensitive (believe it or not).
Apparently they suspect some of the demilitarization regulations were not met?
#1 If "they" suspect this, why did they just not call up Yanks and make an appointment? An F-14 is not easily concealed.
#2 Why is there a media circus there for something that should be relatively routine. I mean the aircraft have been there for years in plain sight.
#3 What is there to "sieze"? Why not take the offending component or do a structural demilitarization on site?
#4 Yanks has spent a considerable amount of time and effort restoring the cockpit of one of the aircraft. I suspect that if any of this work gets damaged there will be lawsuits flying.
Apparently they suspect some of the demilitarization regulations were not met?
#1 If "they" suspect this, why did they just not call up Yanks and make an appointment? An F-14 is not easily concealed.
#2 Why is there a media circus there for something that should be relatively routine. I mean the aircraft have been there for years in plain sight.
#3 What is there to "sieze"? Why not take the offending component or do a structural demilitarization on site?
#4 Yanks has spent a considerable amount of time and effort restoring the cockpit of one of the aircraft. I suspect that if any of this work gets damaged there will be lawsuits flying.
Re: Knuckleheads
Tue Mar 06, 2007 11:14 pm
Yes, this never would have happened under Clinton's watch. They were too busy trying to nationalize health care and create scary new names for semi-automatic firearms.Forgotten Field wrote:This is what you get when you elect a coke head president- crazy paranoia from top down...
Tue Mar 06, 2007 11:17 pm
Even though the F-14 was retired. It still contains classified/sensitive equipment. The Iranians have been trying to buy/steal/reverse engineer parts for their Turkeys for years. The Russians and Chinese are always trying to get their hands on our military tech despite being our "friends" 
. Everybody spys on everybody else, it's a fact of life. Sifting through the gobbldy-gook in the newsies report and looking at the photos. Two big things stick out to me as being big "no-no's" One is the engines. They ain't suposed to be there. Unless those are fake burner cans in the center aircraft. Complete engines must have the compressor case, burner cans and several other parts cut with a torch to prevent them from being rebuilt and used. Or smashed flat by a D-8 Caterpillar. The seats must also be rendered safe and unuseable/rebuildable. All the radar, fire control and other sensitive stuff must also be removed. Dummy parts can be installed for appearances. If both POF and Yanks have their ducks in a row and all their paperwork is in order, they shouldn't have any problems....(barring the fact that they should know the demil regs themselves so they wouldn't get caught up in a situation like this, I know I would if I was a museum in receipt of military hardware)
. Everybody spys on everybody else, it's a fact of life. Sifting through the gobbldy-gook in the newsies report and looking at the photos. Two big things stick out to me as being big "no-no's" One is the engines. They ain't suposed to be there. Unless those are fake burner cans in the center aircraft. Complete engines must have the compressor case, burner cans and several other parts cut with a torch to prevent them from being rebuilt and used. Or smashed flat by a D-8 Caterpillar. The seats must also be rendered safe and unuseable/rebuildable. All the radar, fire control and other sensitive stuff must also be removed. Dummy parts can be installed for appearances. If both POF and Yanks have their ducks in a row and all their paperwork is in order, they shouldn't have any problems....(barring the fact that they should know the demil regs themselves so they wouldn't get caught up in a situation like this, I know I would if I was a museum in receipt of military hardware)
Tue Mar 06, 2007 11:43 pm
Yanks has literally dozens of recent military acquisitions. There must be something specific to these particular aircraft and not the acquisition process itself that "they" are concerned with.
These aircraft are not on loan either. They are the property of the respective museums that acquired them. We'll see where this all goes eventually I guess.
I'm sure that congressmen are being called, etc.
News flash- 8:50 PM Chino standard time: Reportedly two of the F-14s have been secured on the open publically accessible transient ramp at the base of the tower now for safekeeping. So the aircraft are "seized" yet there is no security? What if some ne'er do well foreign agent were to spirit the aircraft off in the night after the tower closes? You would expect these aircraft to be safer locked in Yank's compound!
All the "officials" left when the news helicopter flew off I guess!
These aircraft are not on loan either. They are the property of the respective museums that acquired them. We'll see where this all goes eventually I guess.
I'm sure that congressmen are being called, etc.
News flash- 8:50 PM Chino standard time: Reportedly two of the F-14s have been secured on the open publically accessible transient ramp at the base of the tower now for safekeeping. So the aircraft are "seized" yet there is no security? What if some ne'er do well foreign agent were to spirit the aircraft off in the night after the tower closes? You would expect these aircraft to be safer locked in Yank's compound!
All the "officials" left when the news helicopter flew off I guess!
AF Museum Certification
Tue Mar 06, 2007 11:56 pm
If the F-14's were acquired by donation, they are governed by directives of the sponsoring service (USN, USAF, etc.). I don't know about the USN, but AF Museum Certs are extensive, and the USAF must be updated on a regular (annual) basis on aircraft held by a museum (if that was how the aircraft were acquired). Demil functions must be accomplished prior to accession of the item into the museum's government property book and this is supposedly supervised by the sponsoring service.
If the aircraft were purchased, they are governed by regulations pertaining to Signifigant Military Equipment (SME) which is driven by a munitions list produced by DOD. The munitions list has specific requirements for demilitarization, and ownership of munitions list items is restricted to persons who are eligible to receive an End User Certificate (EUC). EUC's must be approved PRIOR to transfer of ownership of the munition's list item. LOTS of stuff goes out from DRMO and DOD disposal contractors with proper demilitarization, but when it is not accomplished, the holder of the EUC is responsible if those demils are not carried out.
Still, this is total headline grabbing sugar. Even if there was a criminal conspiracy on the part of the present caretakers of the aircraft, in any case, the transfer of the aircraft was supervised by an agency of the US Government which was responsible to ensure that they were properly demilled, and they failed their job. They (being the prevailing morons in the executive branch) have been making noises for a long time about another "home terrorism" law to "protect" us from ourselves. I think this was just what they were looking for and an easy target, easy headlines.
It took them 17 months to figure out that three aircraft were improperly demilled? Well, they have such a good track record with WMD's, so I'm not surprised. They were probably staking out Chino all that time waiting for Osama to show up...
BDK, I didn't like Clinton either- he's the reason I left the military. But GWB is the reason I didn't go back in.
If the aircraft were purchased, they are governed by regulations pertaining to Signifigant Military Equipment (SME) which is driven by a munitions list produced by DOD. The munitions list has specific requirements for demilitarization, and ownership of munitions list items is restricted to persons who are eligible to receive an End User Certificate (EUC). EUC's must be approved PRIOR to transfer of ownership of the munition's list item. LOTS of stuff goes out from DRMO and DOD disposal contractors with proper demilitarization, but when it is not accomplished, the holder of the EUC is responsible if those demils are not carried out.
Still, this is total headline grabbing sugar. Even if there was a criminal conspiracy on the part of the present caretakers of the aircraft, in any case, the transfer of the aircraft was supervised by an agency of the US Government which was responsible to ensure that they were properly demilled, and they failed their job. They (being the prevailing morons in the executive branch) have been making noises for a long time about another "home terrorism" law to "protect" us from ourselves. I think this was just what they were looking for and an easy target, easy headlines.
It took them 17 months to figure out that three aircraft were improperly demilled? Well, they have such a good track record with WMD's, so I'm not surprised. They were probably staking out Chino all that time waiting for Osama to show up...
BDK, I didn't like Clinton either- he's the reason I left the military. But GWB is the reason I didn't go back in.