Info Needed, John Denver's Accident

[JohnH]

The first thing John Denver should have done is..............

quote]

Uh, made sure his medical was valid? I knew this without looking it up again but here it is:

"
Examination of the FAA medical file disclosed that following the return of the unclaimed November 6, 1996, letter there was no followup action by the FAA until March 25, 1997, when the agency sent the pilot a second letter by certified mail, return request requested, again notifying him that he was medically disqualified. The return receipt for the certified letter was examined by Safety Board investigators; however, the signature of the person who had signed for the mail was illegible."





JH

[airnutz]

How about the Cub lawsuit where Piper was sued and lost because of faulty design (taildragger) that caused the illegally flown aircraft to crash into the truck parked on the runway to stop the pilot from taking off of the closed runway.

I remember(? ) that one, wasn't that a theft or theft of services case where the
plaintiff argued his lack of understanding of the nature of the taildragger was Piper's fault?

[Bill Greenwood]

King, you wrote exactly what I was about to. If we were going to fly an airplane that had a fuel system, or any other critical item that was so strange as to be deffective in design, wouldn't it be common sense to minimize the danger by any other action? If both fuel tanks were enitrely full before takeoff, the engine probably would not have quiit and he would not have needed to turn around to switch tanks. Unfortunately avialtion safety is not a written test. John was a pilot before he was a star singer, if we gave him a written choice, i.e I. Fly a strange plane with a dumb fuel switch design and with only partially full tanks fly at low altitude away from the airport, or 2. Repair the plane so the fuel selector is in front of you as designed, and properly marked, or at the least fill the tanks before takeoff. I think John and most of us could have gotten the right answer.But in the real world people do foolish things and make mistakes.

[King]

King, you wrote exactly what I was about to.

Great minds think alike!

[Robbie Stuart]

Bill, that is a very good point made. Most guys that put themselves in that situation think that the bad stuff will never happen to them, its always the other guy. D-mn shame it can be so unforgiving.
Robbie

[mgeorge51]

If I remember correctly the owner of the airport was trying to stop the pilot from taking off with some sort of an illegal loading issue. I remember it involve cameras in the front or maybe rear seat that was clearly out of legal parameters. So the airport owner told him he couldn't take off like that at his airport. When it was clear the guy was going to do it anyway he closed the airport. When it was clear that the guy was going to takeoff from a closed airport the owner parked a truck on the runway and made it clear to the pilot that it was there. The guy tried to take off anyway, hit the truck and of course the 1938 design was at fault.
Lots of other examples some maybe old wives tales but too many are really true.
The Cory Lidle crash is in the news. I think it is really funny (absolutely not the crash or the deaths) that the Lidle's are getting sued by the apartment owner so they can get a piece of the Lidle lawsuit that claims Cirrus is at fault. Of course it is never the fault of the person who doesn't have insurance or money. It is always the fault of those who can pay.
THIS HURTS AVIATION

[airnutz]

If I remember correctly the owner of the airport was trying to stop the pilot from taking off with some sort of an illegal loading issue.

Thanks MGeorge, didn't hear the loading issue part, but the airport owner
closing part and the truck part of the story were the same. Like you say I could've heard a wives tale or a story passing through too many mouths. It happens.

I had a Viet Vet tell me the other day, in high school he had a Chevy Nova
with a Boss 429...in 1965! I let him have his moment...let that sucker
slide on by....

Last edited by airnutz on Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Bill Greenwood]

Mike, it doesn't change much, but I remember the N. Mexico Supercub accident as a little different. The pilot and the airport owner were at financial odds, maybe compeitors. It was not up to the airport owner to determine whether the Cub was safe for flight, but he did block the runway with the truck. Instead of just cameras , the pilot was carrying a photographer who was either killed or injured and may have been the plaintiff.

[mgeorge51]

Bill, I think your memory may be better. I definitely remember that Piper lost and had to pay for a defective design. There are way too many other examples out there unfortunately.
Unbelievable, but I am trying to get insurance for the R-44 and I was told that it was unusually high due to the fact that Mr. Robinson does not have any insurance for his company and will fight rather then settle. So my insurance is costing me more, since the lawyers can't get as much easy takings from his company and therefore will be more aggressive to my company.

I don't want this to sound bad but my average memory also might have heard that Mr. Denver lost his medical for a driving infraction if you know what I mean. The unfortunate accident was clearly his fault.

I think both of us don't want to think about all of the flying errors we have made.
How about taking off in the Mustang with 6 degrees of left rudder instead of right rudder. Or not waiting for the B-25 wake to clear before starting the takeoff. Unfortunately I have a few more but I learned from them and luckily none were bad enough to kill me. Don't even think of asking me to roll to the right again.

[Bill Greenwood]

Mike's reminded me of the story about the Not So Right, Right Roll, that readers might find funny. At Oshkosh Mike and I were going to fly my Spitfire. We had a briefing, didn't have any practice time before the flight as the field would close soon for the show. I knew Mike was an experienced pilot Mustang, etc. pilot, but had never actually flown with him. I taxied us in position and Mike did the takeoff, ok. We climbed above the cloud layer and he took the controls to make some turns, feel out the plane, and we did a stall. All went well. Keep in mind that for a novice pilot, I might take 30 min for what Mike did in 10. Then I said try a roll, so Mike did one to the left and it was really good; so I relaxed even more and said try one to the right. Mike did, and it was pretty poor! I was surprised, but it was about time to get back to land. After we parked I asked him how he liked it, and then about the 2nd roll that wasn't so good. He said, "I never do rolls to the right!" Just another Warbird moment to remember.

[TAdan]

I had a Viet Vet tell me the other day, in high school he had a Chevy Nova
with a Boss 429...in 1965! I let him have his moment...let that sucker
slide on by....

Thats when you smile, nod, and slowly back away...

[k5083]

The case concerning the Super Cub was Cleveland v. Piper Aircraft Corp., 890 F.2d 1540 (10th Cir. 1989) (on appeal to 10th Circuit Court of Appeals). This is a rather famous aviation product liability case because of its bizarre facts and because there was so much blame and stupidity to spread around. It became the poster child for aviation tort reform in the 1990s. Implicated in the case was not just the Super Cub's taildragger configuration but also the lack of a shoulder harness. The airport owner's reason for blocking the runway was that he felt that the Super Cub owner's glider towing operation was unsafe and was trying to avoid liability to himself by preventing the guy from taking off.

August

[Django]

Forgive the "I never finished flight training question", but why are right rolls bad??

Did you guys see this crash? Disgusting...

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/03/06/indian ... topstories

[Jack Cook]

Has I recall, John Denver was involved in a earlier crash involved a antique bi-plane possible a Waco or a Great Lakes.

[N3Njeff]

August,
thanks for posting that it was a super cub.

I know a guy that had to appear in court cause he built a christen eagle and later sold it. The aircraft was involved in a midair with a skydiver. The pilots family was in court saying that there was a visibility issue with the aircraft.

Another local incident of a Midair, think it involved a C-150 & C-172 in the traffic patern. I was told that again the family was going after cessna for a visibility issue.