Fri Apr 27, 2007 2:10 am
Found this photo day.
Fri Apr 27, 2007 3:15 am
Alan Brooks...Thanks for posting the pictures you took when y'all were here. We appreciate all the help.
Oh, and before anyone asks, the one picture of the gun hanging out of the nose shows a rope holding the gun up. This was only temporary, as I was just trying to get a gun hanging out the front to try to generate more donations during one of the weekend events that we were having at the time.
Sabremech...Thanks. WIX is a sort of release for me. When I just need to step away from the B-24 project due to frustration or whatever (becoming more frequent lately), I love checking in to see what everyone else is up to. I'm just glad to see this whole "WIX daily update thing" catching on with everyone else.
T33driver...Thank you.
snjfxr...Thanks and no. I should have a bunch of folks here tomorrow, but we'll see.
bluethunder28...Cool picture, thanks for posting. And, yep, that's the squadron that AM927 was going to be in had it actually ever made it to England.
Gary
Oh, and before anyone asks, the one picture of the gun hanging out of the nose shows a rope holding the gun up. This was only temporary, as I was just trying to get a gun hanging out the front to try to generate more donations during one of the weekend events that we were having at the time.
Sabremech...Thanks. WIX is a sort of release for me. When I just need to step away from the B-24 project due to frustration or whatever (becoming more frequent lately), I love checking in to see what everyone else is up to. I'm just glad to see this whole "WIX daily update thing" catching on with everyone else.
T33driver...Thank you.
snjfxr...Thanks and no. I should have a bunch of folks here tomorrow, but we'll see.
bluethunder28...Cool picture, thanks for posting. And, yep, that's the squadron that AM927 was going to be in had it actually ever made it to England.
Gary
Fri Apr 27, 2007 4:01 am
Gary,
The second box of clecos is on the way. You should have it around Wednesday or Thursday of next week. As I mentioned, these are 3/16 draw clecos. I can send more of these or some 1/4 draw, whichever you can use.
RICK
The second box of clecos is on the way. You should have it around Wednesday or Thursday of next week. As I mentioned, these are 3/16 draw clecos. I can send more of these or some 1/4 draw, whichever you can use.
RICK
Fri Apr 27, 2007 5:23 am
Allllllrighty then...do y'all want to see the step by step on how to install propellers on a B-24? No? Well, here it is anyway. .............
Now, as with dang near everything else I've done on this airplane, there are surely easier and better ways to do it, but this is how I got it done. The first step of this installation actually has nothing to do with the prop itself. It has to do with the output shaft on the engine. I wiped it clean and then applied a nice, thin coat of anti-seize to the splines. It is important when doing this to keep the cone at the base of the output shaft dry. That is what the prop will eventually be held against and when torquing the prop, you don't want any type of substance in between it and the prop hub......
The next step is to install an o-ring at the forward end of the cone. This isn't something that is original to the Hamilton Standard set up, but the prop shop provided it for me and it is a good Band-Aid to help stop leaks should the main prop seal start seeping. Oh, and if you're not a knucklehead like me, you would install this o-ring before you put all of that nasty ol' anti-seize on there. What a mess!........
Then, with the prop suspended from the forklift, make sure the inside of the prop hub is nice and clean........
Then just drive the forklift up and slide the prop on. No big deal here at all.......
The next step I take is to lay out all of the parts needed for the rest of the installation and kind of get a mental picture of your next few steps........
The first thing to install is the backing ring for the prop seal. this gives the seal a nice, flat surface to rest against, rather than the output shaft splines.......
Then, with a light coat of oil on the seal, install it with the flat portion towards the backing ring.......
I'm sure there are several (better) ways to seat the seal in place, but I typically get a dull, straightslot screwdriver, and just gently push the seal in place, alllll the way around..........
Then the little seal stretcher-outer-keeps-it-from-collapsing-thingy goes in.....
It just rests in the middle of the "V" of the seal and helps seat it against the outboard edges of the prop hub.......
Next, you get the retaining nut, along with the two pieces of the retaining ring.........
Each half of the ring simply rests in the groove on the retaining nut......
Then just install that assembly on the output shaft by hand........
Before tightening the prop, place a ladder on the end of one of the blades, with some rags or other padding to help protect it from getting damaged. this will hold the prop still while tightening it up........
Then, as per the directions in the book, get a 180 pound man on a three foot bar, and tighten the nut up........
The nut needs to be tightened until one of the castelations in the retaining nut lines up with one of the locking holes in the output shaft. We'll install the locking pin in a later step.......
After the retaining nut is tightened, go ahead and install the big, honkin' snap ring. It's important not to forget this piece, as it keeps all of that retaining nut stuff in place when removing the prop. As you back the retaining nut off, it'll press against this snap ring and push the prop away from the engine. Other than that, this snap ring has no other purpose in life.........
If this were an AeroProducts propeller, we'd be nearly finished now, but since it's a stinkin' ol' Hamilton Standard, we've still got a bunch of work left to do........
So now that the prop won't fall off, it's time to install the distributor valve, or "stalk," as some call it. This is what the engine oil is distributed through in order to make it's way from the engine to the prop dome. First thing to do is to install the copper gasket........
Then just get the stalk and screw it into the output shaft by hand. Notice that this stalk has a damaged keyway on it. Not uncommon, as it simply shows where someone has tried to remove it in the past without taking it's retaining pin out first. It's not the end of the world, and I think you're allowed two of them like this on one stalk, or something like that (the prop shop would know for sure)......
After that, just get the multi-tool for the prop and install it on the stalk. Tighten it firmly by hand and then give it a few wraps with the hammer until you get one of the keyways to line up with the lined up holes on the retaining nut and the output shaft. Remember, it's just a copper gasket between the stalk and the output shaft of the engine, so it's not necessary to overtighten it. Plus, you'll just piss the next guy off that has to remove it.........
Not quite lined up, so just a little more.........
There. That's more like it.......
Next, you simply install the locking pin. This locks the stalk and the retaining nut to the output shaft of the engine, all at the same time. I also take this opportunity to insure that the piston rings on the stalk are staggered and not lined up. These are what seal the piston in the dome (described later).....
The next step is to install the prop dome. The dome is the "muscle" of the prop. The flow of oil through it moves a large piston forward and aft (it's proper position maintained by the prop governor). The movement of the piston rotates a large gear at the base of the dome, which meshes with the gears on the base of each prop blade. Pure magic.
This is a step, however, that can be accomplished several different ways. Some maintenance manuals say to put the prop and dome in the "feather" position for installation, others do not. So what I've learned over the years is to do what's simplest for each installation. In this particular case, I chose to install the dome with it and the blades in the "low pitch" position. San Antonio propeller just got finished working on these props and does a great job of helping lazy mechanics like me out. They mark all of the pertinent pitch positions on each blade and already had the dome stop against the low pitch side. If you look closely at this picture, you will see that. The high pitch stops are closest to you in the picture, while the low pitch stops are just behind them........
I also know the low pitch angle of the blades is 18 degrees, but to confirm, I cheated and looked at what San Antonio Propeller just painted on the blades.......
I then made sure that the blades were in proper position before installing the dome. The MUST be lined up correctly! If one blade is a tooth off, it'll shake like a double jointed hooker on dollar day.
Each blade either has a degree mark on it's base, or a center punch mark (for 18 degrees) put there by the prop shop. The hub of the prop will have a very small line scribed into it for the degree mark on the blade to line up with (barely visible in the second photo here)....
If necessary, you can rotate each blade into it's exact position by sliding the blade paddle on and rotating it until the desired result is acheived. I didn't need to do that for this installation (got lucky), but I took a picture of the blade paddle anyway........
Before installing the dome, make sure you don't forget to install it's seal first. Again, with a light coat of oil, install it with the chamfered end out.....
Don't forget to install the lifting handle, and keep note of where the index mark on the dome is, compared to the one on the prop hub (yellow arrow in this case).......
Then you carefully slide the dome onto the prop hub. Since this is a cute little baby propeller, the dome only weighs about 40 pounds or so. The one on the B-29 weighs around 80-85 pounds! Be careful not to bang the dome on the stalk with this step........
Then just screw the dome nut onto the prop hub......
After that, get the dome wrench and tighten the nut down. This, too, needs to be good and tight, but not so tight that the next guy out on the road will cuss you when he can't get it removed. It's sealed by that big, rubber seal, so a few good raps with the hammer will be sufficient..........
During this step, you need to insure you get the locking holes aligned. NEVER loosen the dome nut if you've gone too far, just continue to the next one. So the trick is to find one that's close.........
...and snug the nut up until the holes are lined up...........
Hang in there, we're almost done.
Next, install the locking screw. This needs to be screwed down to the end of it's threads, but does NOT need to be tight. These screws are junk, and if someone breaks the tangs off when trying to remove it because you've overtightened it, you'll be called really mean things. The safety wire will hold it into place..........
And speaking of safety wire...I don't want to insult anyone's intellegence here, but safetying these dome nut locking screws is something that I've rarely seen done the same way twice in the past. It can be a bit of a challenge, since it's not got much to safety to. So here's the step by step of how I do it.......
First, I cut about an 8 or 10 inch piece of wire and slid it through the locking screw.......
Then I pull one end around to meet the other. It'll be easier in the long run if you make it to where the two ends of the safety wire are relatively close together.......
Next, I bent the wire coming out of the screw straight up, so that it would help keep it from sliding out while I pulled on the other end of the wire with my pliers to get rid of all excess slack..............
Then, I clamped the two ends of the wire together in my pliers, approximately two inches away from the dome, and at an angle in which the wire will meet at the corner of the square portion of the dome nut, when tightened. One thing to note here is that while my old safety wire pliers twist to the right only (newer pliers twist both ways), I manually twisted the wire to the left. Why? So that when twisting to the left, the wire automatically sucks in tight under the dome nut, rather than wanting to slide over the top. That is a simple step that is often not considered when folks safety these prop domes......
Once that is done, I just cut off the excess wire and made a nice pig tail. It is a pet peeve of mine when people leave nice, sharp edges of safety wire (and freakin' ty-wraps) for you to cut yourself on. So, I try to make sure that I don't leave any sharpies around. I always drag my fingers over my finished pig tails...if I don't get cut, then the next guy won't get cut. Plus, it just looks better and more professional as well........
Whew! So how do you like working on Hamilton Standards now? Geez! But wait, we're still not done.
.........
Now take the dome handle off and get your seal, dome cap, and lock ready for installation. Oh, and wave to the kids as they walk by on a field trip and try not to laugh out loud when the Museum's tour guides tell them the most ridiculous "facts" you've ever heard.......
Okay, you should know the drill by now...light coat of oil, install seal. Tapered end towards the dome........
Then install the dome cap. Just nice and snug with the wrench. This is a rubber seal that's keeping the oil in the dome, so there's simply no need to put the gorilla torque on it. Just make sure you've lined up the locking holes........
Then finally, install the dome cap locking pin.......
And there you have it, one installed propeller. Only three more to go.......
So that's it for now. That ought to keep y'all occupied for a while. I'm going to go try to earn my keep now. I'll holler at you later.
Oh, and b17engineer.....thanks ahead of time for the draw clecos. We can use anything like that you send us.
Gary
.............
Now, as with dang near everything else I've done on this airplane, there are surely easier and better ways to do it, but this is how I got it done. The first step of this installation actually has nothing to do with the prop itself. It has to do with the output shaft on the engine. I wiped it clean and then applied a nice, thin coat of anti-seize to the splines. It is important when doing this to keep the cone at the base of the output shaft dry. That is what the prop will eventually be held against and when torquing the prop, you don't want any type of substance in between it and the prop hub......
The next step is to install an o-ring at the forward end of the cone. This isn't something that is original to the Hamilton Standard set up, but the prop shop provided it for me and it is a good Band-Aid to help stop leaks should the main prop seal start seeping. Oh, and if you're not a knucklehead like me, you would install this o-ring before you put all of that nasty ol' anti-seize on there. What a mess!........
Then, with the prop suspended from the forklift, make sure the inside of the prop hub is nice and clean........
Then just drive the forklift up and slide the prop on. No big deal here at all.......
The next step I take is to lay out all of the parts needed for the rest of the installation and kind of get a mental picture of your next few steps........
The first thing to install is the backing ring for the prop seal. this gives the seal a nice, flat surface to rest against, rather than the output shaft splines.......
Then, with a light coat of oil on the seal, install it with the flat portion towards the backing ring.......
I'm sure there are several (better) ways to seat the seal in place, but I typically get a dull, straightslot screwdriver, and just gently push the seal in place, alllll the way around..........
Then the little seal stretcher-outer-keeps-it-from-collapsing-thingy goes in.....
It just rests in the middle of the "V" of the seal and helps seat it against the outboard edges of the prop hub.......
Next, you get the retaining nut, along with the two pieces of the retaining ring.........
Each half of the ring simply rests in the groove on the retaining nut......
Then just install that assembly on the output shaft by hand........
Before tightening the prop, place a ladder on the end of one of the blades, with some rags or other padding to help protect it from getting damaged. this will hold the prop still while tightening it up........
Then, as per the directions in the book, get a 180 pound man on a three foot bar, and tighten the nut up........
The nut needs to be tightened until one of the castelations in the retaining nut lines up with one of the locking holes in the output shaft. We'll install the locking pin in a later step.......
After the retaining nut is tightened, go ahead and install the big, honkin' snap ring. It's important not to forget this piece, as it keeps all of that retaining nut stuff in place when removing the prop. As you back the retaining nut off, it'll press against this snap ring and push the prop away from the engine. Other than that, this snap ring has no other purpose in life.........
If this were an AeroProducts propeller, we'd be nearly finished now, but since it's a stinkin' ol' Hamilton Standard, we've still got a bunch of work left to do........
So now that the prop won't fall off, it's time to install the distributor valve, or "stalk," as some call it. This is what the engine oil is distributed through in order to make it's way from the engine to the prop dome. First thing to do is to install the copper gasket........
Then just get the stalk and screw it into the output shaft by hand. Notice that this stalk has a damaged keyway on it. Not uncommon, as it simply shows where someone has tried to remove it in the past without taking it's retaining pin out first. It's not the end of the world, and I think you're allowed two of them like this on one stalk, or something like that (the prop shop would know for sure)......
After that, just get the multi-tool for the prop and install it on the stalk. Tighten it firmly by hand and then give it a few wraps with the hammer until you get one of the keyways to line up with the lined up holes on the retaining nut and the output shaft. Remember, it's just a copper gasket between the stalk and the output shaft of the engine, so it's not necessary to overtighten it. Plus, you'll just piss the next guy off that has to remove it.........
Not quite lined up, so just a little more.........
There. That's more like it.......
Next, you simply install the locking pin. This locks the stalk and the retaining nut to the output shaft of the engine, all at the same time. I also take this opportunity to insure that the piston rings on the stalk are staggered and not lined up. These are what seal the piston in the dome (described later).....
The next step is to install the prop dome. The dome is the "muscle" of the prop. The flow of oil through it moves a large piston forward and aft (it's proper position maintained by the prop governor). The movement of the piston rotates a large gear at the base of the dome, which meshes with the gears on the base of each prop blade. Pure magic.
This is a step, however, that can be accomplished several different ways. Some maintenance manuals say to put the prop and dome in the "feather" position for installation, others do not. So what I've learned over the years is to do what's simplest for each installation. In this particular case, I chose to install the dome with it and the blades in the "low pitch" position. San Antonio propeller just got finished working on these props and does a great job of helping lazy mechanics like me out. They mark all of the pertinent pitch positions on each blade and already had the dome stop against the low pitch side. If you look closely at this picture, you will see that. The high pitch stops are closest to you in the picture, while the low pitch stops are just behind them........
I also know the low pitch angle of the blades is 18 degrees, but to confirm, I cheated and looked at what San Antonio Propeller just painted on the blades.......
I then made sure that the blades were in proper position before installing the dome. The MUST be lined up correctly! If one blade is a tooth off, it'll shake like a double jointed hooker on dollar day.
Each blade either has a degree mark on it's base, or a center punch mark (for 18 degrees) put there by the prop shop. The hub of the prop will have a very small line scribed into it for the degree mark on the blade to line up with (barely visible in the second photo here)....
If necessary, you can rotate each blade into it's exact position by sliding the blade paddle on and rotating it until the desired result is acheived. I didn't need to do that for this installation (got lucky), but I took a picture of the blade paddle anyway........
Before installing the dome, make sure you don't forget to install it's seal first. Again, with a light coat of oil, install it with the chamfered end out.....
Don't forget to install the lifting handle, and keep note of where the index mark on the dome is, compared to the one on the prop hub (yellow arrow in this case).......
Then you carefully slide the dome onto the prop hub. Since this is a cute little baby propeller, the dome only weighs about 40 pounds or so. The one on the B-29 weighs around 80-85 pounds!
Be careful not to bang the dome on the stalk with this step........
Then just screw the dome nut onto the prop hub......
After that, get the dome wrench and tighten the nut down. This, too, needs to be good and tight, but not so tight that the next guy out on the road will cuss you when he can't get it removed. It's sealed by that big, rubber seal, so a few good raps with the hammer will be sufficient..........
During this step, you need to insure you get the locking holes aligned. NEVER loosen the dome nut if you've gone too far, just continue to the next one. So the trick is to find one that's close.........
...and snug the nut up until the holes are lined up...........
Hang in there, we're almost done.
Next, install the locking screw. This needs to be screwed down to the end of it's threads, but does NOT need to be tight. These screws are junk, and if someone breaks the tangs off when trying to remove it because you've overtightened it, you'll be called really mean things. The safety wire will hold it into place..........
And speaking of safety wire...I don't want to insult anyone's intellegence here, but safetying these dome nut locking screws is something that I've rarely seen done the same way twice in the past. It can be a bit of a challenge, since it's not got much to safety to. So here's the step by step of how I do it.......
First, I cut about an 8 or 10 inch piece of wire and slid it through the locking screw.......
Then I pull one end around to meet the other. It'll be easier in the long run if you make it to where the two ends of the safety wire are relatively close together.......
Next, I bent the wire coming out of the screw straight up, so that it would help keep it from sliding out while I pulled on the other end of the wire with my pliers to get rid of all excess slack..............
Then, I clamped the two ends of the wire together in my pliers, approximately two inches away from the dome, and at an angle in which the wire will meet at the corner of the square portion of the dome nut, when tightened. One thing to note here is that while my old safety wire pliers twist to the right only (newer pliers twist both ways), I manually twisted the wire to the left. Why? So that when twisting to the left, the wire automatically sucks in tight under the dome nut, rather than wanting to slide over the top. That is a simple step that is often not considered when folks safety these prop domes......
Once that is done, I just cut off the excess wire and made a nice pig tail. It is a pet peeve of mine when people leave nice, sharp edges of safety wire (and freakin' ty-wraps) for you to cut yourself on. So, I try to make sure that I don't leave any sharpies around. I always drag my fingers over my finished pig tails...if I don't get cut, then the next guy won't get cut. Plus, it just looks better and more professional as well........
Whew! So how do you like working on Hamilton Standards now? Geez! But wait, we're still not done.
.........
Now take the dome handle off and get your seal, dome cap, and lock ready for installation. Oh, and wave to the kids as they walk by on a field trip and try not to laugh out loud when the Museum's tour guides tell them the most ridiculous "facts" you've ever heard.......
Okay, you should know the drill by now...light coat of oil, install seal. Tapered end towards the dome........
Then install the dome cap. Just nice and snug with the wrench. This is a rubber seal that's keeping the oil in the dome, so there's simply no need to put the gorilla torque on it. Just make sure you've lined up the locking holes........
Then finally, install the dome cap locking pin.......
And there you have it, one installed propeller. Only three more to go.......
So that's it for now. That ought to keep y'all occupied for a while. I'm going to go try to earn my keep now. I'll holler at you later.
Oh, and b17engineer.....thanks ahead of time for the draw clecos. We can use anything like that you send us.
Gary
Re: B-24
Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:04 am
Quest Master wrote:Gary,
I know you are busy - but I have a couple of quick questions. Did the early B-24A's have oxygen systems? If so, do you have and are you going to mount the G-1 oxygen bottles in the top of the tail above the command deck area? What about A-4 oxygen walk around bottles....did she have them? I just trying to come up with ideas I can work on toward this winter (I really want to come down there again - I wish I had known this winter). If so, I could copy the G-1 and A-4 mounts from my project for you, plus I have a few early complete early walk around bottles I could permanently lend to you guys.
Sorry, I somehow missed this one earlier and forgot to reply. Yep, the "A" model did have oxygen, but there's no way I'll get it installed this year. I have a couple of bottles, but no mounting bracketry. If you could help us with that for next season, that would be great.
Gary
Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:14 am
Wow! Gary this thing is going to be a hit on the airshow circuit this year! It looks great. I take it that the gears that you can see before installing the prop dome, is to adjust pitch for the props?
Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:35 am
Oh, and by the way...
Left waist gun...
Right waist gun...
Tunnel gun...
Tail gun...
Thanks WIXers!!!
Gary
Left waist gun...
Right waist gun...
Tunnel gun...
Tail gun...
Thanks WIXers!!!
Gary
Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:35 am
mustangdriver wrote: I take it that the gears that you can see before installing the prop dome, is to adjust pitch for the props?
Yup.
Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:40 am
Holly crap. Those are awsome. I didn't know anthing like that was even on the drawing borad. I am so excited about the guns.
Fri Apr 27, 2007 7:12 am
Oh MY! Thanks, Gary!
Fri Apr 27, 2007 7:36 am
Gary ~ What a nice touch ! Seeing the pictures of the guns has been the first thing today to make me smile
This airplane is looking sharper by the day ~ Awesome !
This airplane is looking sharper by the day ~ Awesome !
Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:09 am
Wow, Gary! With all the things on your plate, that was a very thoughtful thing to do!
Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:22 am
Sasnak wrote:Gary,
I was thinking about this question and studying the war-time photo below. Just my uneducated opinion, but I think that the single-gun system had the barrel protruding through the bottom of the two holes in the middle, and not through a notch at the very bottom. If you look in the photo below, it appears that the upper hole has a "plug" in place and the bottom hole is open. With the doors closed, it appears that the barrel would stick out through the bottom of the two holes, making the barrel stick out parallel to the ground when stowed.
Again, just my opinion. (although I think I'm right) Do you think my interpretation has merit, or am I just full of....
Sasnak, you bet your interpretation has merit. However, so do most other interpretations. As you can see in the photo below, AM922 had a notch cut out of it, with the two other holes plugged up. No guns sticking out, which probably means this picture was taken while the airplane was still Stateside (since we were "neutral" at the time). I'm still tinkering with where I'm going to stow the gun. Heck, who knows what I'll come up with.
Gary
Fri Apr 27, 2007 10:30 am
Those "WIX Data Plates" look great! Thanks Mr. Austin!!
Taylor
Taylor
TF-51D
Fri Apr 27, 2007 12:24 pm
Now sometimes there is a work break or two,especially when a TF-51D is pulled from the hanger and about to depart, so out comes the camera and pictures appear. This bird was really sweet, and so..............smooth, almost beyond description....... here goes...... Alan
Early morning glow.
Engine idling smoothly
The taxi out
Early morning glow.
Engine idling smoothly
The taxi out