Hurricane Restoration

[Jeffrey]

Hey Stoney:

Neil Rose had a good frame and wings and it took him 29 YEARS to get it flyable. There are some joints in the frame that have 108 parts to it, why didn't just weld it!

I'd agree, you don't have to make it 100% original, just weld the joints, and make it 90% original. It's experimental anyway.

there goes your rolls royce award.

not to mention any hope of anything at oshkosh or similar if they find even one of those welds I should think. besides, from memory, there was a reason, which was airframe servicability and stress I think, for having those joints.

[HarvardIV]

Don't care what they think in Oshkosh, I'm in this for personal enthusiasm.

[HarvardIV]

Don't care what they think at Oshkosh; I'm in this due to personal enthusiasm.

[Jeffrey]

Don't care what they think at Oshkosh; I'm in this due to personal enthusiasm.

well as long as you realise also might limit the number of people who would buy what they'd see as a "ruined" airframe when you are finished with it.

I can't remember the name of the guy but I believe many years ago there was some-one who treated airframes as things to be just cut and shut and was making some you-beaut- new aircraft based on an old japanese one with add on bits or something. careful or you might be labeled as similarly crazy if you actually did things like this.

it is like a vehicle type we have on the roads here. there are certain things which are designed into vehicles for a reason, such as the "crumple" zones to ensure survivability in even of an accident. I still refuse to accept that the strengthening and such which resulted in the reduction of the crumple zone of those vehicles during their modification to enable them to carry wheelchair passengers is good. I fail to see how reduction of the crumple zone from nearly 2' to about 3" leaves it effective.

sorry but that level of changes to a design always have me wondering.

[bdk]

I can't remember the name of the guy but I believe many years ago there was some-one who treated airframes as things to be just cut and shut and was making some you-beaut- new aircraft based on an old japanese one with add on bits or something. careful or you might be labeled as similarly crazy if you actually did things like this.

Some Canuck probably. Was that you Ollie?

[HarvardIV]

well as long as you realise also might limit the number of people who would buy what they'd see as a "ruined" airframe when you are finished with it.

I suppose the ex-MOF Zero with the R-1830, P-47's w/o working turbocharger, B-17's w/ non-operating bombshackles, A-26 w/ extra window in the back, modern electrical systems, t/w instead of skids, pilots w/o original uniforms, engines w/modern spark plugs, airframe w/ new skins, newer tires, every warplane w/o original radios, w/o gunsights, and w/o working machine guns are all ruined?

Supposedly, if someone wanted all these goodies or junk (depanding on how you look at it) in the plane they could go ahead and put them in at a later time. Even the uniforms..

t is like a vehicle type we have on the roads here. there are certain things which are designed into vehicles for a reason, such as the "crumple" zones to ensure survivability in even of an accident

This is what IA mechanics, AC-43-13, and for hire aerospace engineers are for.

[dj51d]

Welding a Hurricane's tubes together is rather more permanent than a Zero with an 1830, or a P-47 with an inop turbo. Also, would it really be that much cheaper to do all the strength and fatigue analysis to support a welded frame rather than just creating the tooling to do the job properly(or paying the experts to do it for you)?

[HarvardIV]

Welding a Hurricane's tubes together is rather more permanent than a Zero with an 1830, or a P-47 with an inop turbo. Also, would it really be that much cheaper to do all the strength and fatigue analysis to support a welded frame rather than just creating the tooling to do the job properly(or paying the experts to do it for you)?

Good question, I suppose that would be up to the guy doing the job.

[Ollie]

bdk, you fool!

It was Bob Diemert!!

[HarvardIV]

Bob Diemert is a Canuck right?

[Ollie]

Yes, from Manitoba he is.

[dj51d]

Yes, from Manitoba he is.

Are you about 1m tall and green now?

[Jeffrey]

I suppose the ex-MOF Zero with the R-1830, P-47's w/o working turbocharger, B-17's w/ non-operating bombshackles, A-26 w/ extra window in the back, modern electrical systems, t/w instead of skids, pilots w/o original uniforms, engines w/modern spark plugs, airframe w/ new skins, newer tires, every warplane w/o original radios, w/o gunsights, and w/o working machine guns are all ruined?

are any of them major structural or design changes? the only one I can see which might be, if the window is big enough, close to that would be the A26 you mentioned.

as for changing from the joints to welded then by welding the original airframe sections together you are making it virtually impossible to ever return them to the same configuration as they were. a permanent and irreversible change which I am certain at least some people would view as undesirable.

Supposedly, if someone wanted all these goodies or junk (depanding on how you look at it) in the plane they could go ahead and put them in at a later time. Even the uniforms..

Exactly. to remove the welds and replace with the joints would be next to completely impossible if you wanted to return it to anything more than a static display without complete replacement of almost every component and airframe section.

I realise that in some this is basically done and easily done now but not with hurricanes. In this case considering the amount and degree of difference and testing and analysis and definately expense you'd be going through I reckon a complete new made airframe would be better, quicker, cheaper and easier with a data plate screwed onto it. so why bother even getting the old aiframe at all except for the data plate. why not save it for a museum if going to "adapt" it to that degree.

t is like a vehicle type we have on the roads here. there are certain things which are designed into vehicles for a reason, such as the "crumple" zones to ensure survivability in even of an accident

This is what IA mechanics, AC-43-13, and for hire aerospace engineers are for.

yep and how complete new built replications ( although in this case using an original airframe as a source of basic tubing and castings etc ) come about possibly.

sorry but if you treated an airframe like that then to me it is simply a new plane built with old materials.

[Jeffrey]

bdk, you fool!

It was Bob Diemert!!

if he's the guy that was using something like a val or judy to make a new military aircraft named the avenger or vinidicator or something similar then he might be the guy I am thinking of, also had a firefly and a few other things as well which when properly examined caused some interesting expressions of disbelief.

had done things like , from a very vague memory, installed a york motor package on the firefly.

[Ollie]

Yes, from Manitoba he is.

Are you about 1m tall and green now?

What the ??????



Jeffrey, Diemert is the man. He rebuilt the CAF's Zero. I remember seeing a very interesting documentary about him on CBC a while back.