Warbird Information Exchange

tulsaboy,
This is exactly what needs to be brought up to the FAA. We need different rules for warbirds and old piston aircraft. Hmm something like a volunteer certification for doing restoration work on aircraft to flyable condition. Look at what a home aircraft builder is allowed to do.

Would the mortuary and funeral directors be volunteers also?

What makes you think you need any kind of certification at all to work on a warbird?

What I was talking about was having various groups/folks with experience/expertise taking charge/responsibility for various parts. Those with expertise on covering control surfaces could take those parts, those with expertise dealing with instruments could deal with outfitting the cockpit, etc. Not thinking that we all take a piece to our garages and have a good time, but a real, organized effort at making a restoration not such an enormous task for one person/small group.

I don't think it's that stupid of an idea, just maybe a different approach.

kevin

Many of the really big Warbird veteran players out there don't have or didn't have any certifications for years and know more about rebuilding aircraft than most certified individuals. They have certifieds working for them and who they work with that do the required but there are tons of people out there working on Warbirds that have no certifications at all.

Howdy,

I just found this thread and would like to say a few things. First, I tied to get interest up for restoring this plane. The reasons for it were these:
1. B-23's were stationed at McChord Field (here in Washington) during WWII.
2. Douglas Acft. is now apart of Boeing.
3. There is a large group of retirees at Boeing that have finished the B-17F and need a new project.
4. There are only 5 (I think) B-23's left out of 38 built.
5. Wouldn't it be cool to see 2 pre-war bombers (counting OL'927 now) flying together with neutrality markings.

The reasons against were:
1. The Boeing volunteers were supposed to start working on the SWOOSE
B-17C/D for the Smithsonian (still hasn't happened 5 years later).
2. MONEY.
3. A place to do the restoration.
4. Did I mention money?

Could the restoration take place? Yes.
Could the money be raised? Yes.
Will it happen? Maybe. The General Staff of the CAF has a bad taste in it's mouth from several times of people promising money and then not coming through. It happened twice that I know of with the P-82. Money talks folks. If a group were to come up with a workable plan and (most likely) 2/3 of the money needed, in cash (not promises) they would take a serious look at it. I would love to see it happen, but you need to temper hopes with a little bit of reality.

RICK

Here are some pics from my trip to Midland last month. She's a neat airplane. It really is a shame to see here in such bad shape. Imagine this, Ol' 927 and the P-40B flying laps around your favorite airshow. That would be impressive for sure! At the minimum, I'd like to see this thing cleaned up on the exterior enough for an indoors static display. Whether glamorous enough to fly or not, there ARE only a handful.

Its possible to restore the CAF's B-23 back to flying condition, but it would cost well over 700k to restore it back to flying condition by today's standards to where it would satisfy the FAA. To restore the CAF's plane correctly and to satisfy the FAA you would have to strip everything off the entire airframe, then bead blast the entire airframe inside and out to remove some of the corrosion. Then once the airframe is all down to bare metal inside and out and cleaned up, additional corrosion issues and damage can be addressed and the sheet metal repair work can begin. Some of those sheet metal parts would have to be reversed engineered, which most likely would require making molds from maple or other hard woods and placing them into an industrial size multi-ton hydraulic press to form these sheet metal parts from scratch. Even the sheet metal work can be very costly in just materials alone. Sheet metal and fasteners has gone up quite a bit in price over the last few years. You would also need tool & die makers and machinists to fabricate other parts that are no longer available. This includes machined, forged and cast parts that may need to be reversed engineered and replicated for the project. The most serious forms of corrosion are pitting, exfoliation, innergranular and corrosion stress cracking, which would require these parts to be replaced in most cases for airworthiness. All the electrical harnesses and hydraulic lines would need to be replaced with new. Instruments and radios would need to be sent out to FAA certified repair stations for overhaul or replaced with new. Restoring this B-23 Dragon would be a major undertaking that could end up costing well over 1 million dollars to make it all airworthy again with today's costs in materials. If you could find manufacturers and suppliers that are willing to donate materials and services, and have an all volunteer team do the work under the guidance of an A&P Mechanic, then the overall restoration costs could drop dramatically. The biggest challenge would be to get sponsors that are willing to donate materials and services. Just my $.02 worth!

Jim

I feel like you are describing our project. All it takes is love, dedication and buckets full of thousand dollar bills.

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Well? The first part is easy.

But Gary, you seem to know how to make things out of nothing. It should decrease the cost. Right?

I was a supervisor at the control tower at Tamiami Airport for many years. Remember Kermit flying the B23 on several occasions until returning with one engine shut down. It never flew again.

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Group,
Several thoughts here.
1. Since when do we restore warbirds to make profit? I think it's a safe assumption that a large % of us here do it as a labor of love.
2. I'm a museum volunteer myself and plane captain of one of the few non-airworthy a/c at LSFM. (PBY) Corrosion can be a big reality check.
3. Pick up any warbirds magazine and read about another high roller funding a hang-the-cost, do-it-right restoration.
Ditto, individual labor of love restos. Sentiment has no $signs.
4. In the world of volunteer operated, donor funded restorations, you have to set priorities. Some a/c just go to the bottom of the reality heap.
5. Whatever, just don't let it become lawn chairs or mineral sediment in a field. If nothing else, throw and Earl Scheib paint job on it and make it a fifty footer, just save it.
6. When the wide angle wingtip shot first came up I sat up and did a double take! At least make the star more discernible, guys. All I saw was a meatball.

respectfully,
Doug Ratchford, LSFM vol.
"Canso42

One of you said that there are five B-23's surviving at present. CAF's is the topic of this thread and Kermit W's has been mentioned. Who has the other three?

Canso42

According to the registry, it's NMUSAF, McChord AFB, and Carmacks up in Alaska.

http://www.warbirdregistry.org/b23regis ... istry.html

kevin

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