Warbird Information Exchange

Fuel is DEFINITELY of better quality today than in the 1940s and 1950s. Specifically, the octane values are much better representative of the actual configuration of the fuel -- more accurate.

That's not what anybody is getting at. Everybody on here(I hope) knows the sacrifices made to get Glacier Girl flying again. You have to look on the bright side of things, not always the "well it's gonna crash" side. It's going to be a big deal for some people that GG makes it's journey it set out on over 60 years ago, and the reason there is so much hype: when was the last time someone did this? I'm pretty sure no-one has recreated the journey. Now the TF, I guess Mr. Grey wants his airplane for the show, can't really argue with that, he wrote the checks to get that baby flying. You can't just think that everytime an airplane crosses some H2O, it's engines are going to take a dump. The fact that this is a P-38 and a TF-51 makes it no different (risk-wise) than taking a C172 with extra fuel tanks on it, if you see my point. The same chances for an emergency are equal for Joe the pile-it in his fierce 172 and Steve Hinton and Ed Shipley in the fighters.

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"There are two types of people here; airshow whores and airshow prostitutes. The whores, like you and I, do airshow stuff for free, whereas the prostitutes are paid" - Reg Urschler

I think that you have to look at the truth rather than the bright side or the down side. You are not taking a Cessna 172 out over the water(someting that I think is risky as well), you are taking a 60 year old warplane that was restored by a dedicated group of people. Now someone wants to take one hell of a risk with it, and the payoff for the risk is not that big of a deal. Now as for the flight, the aircraft, and the pilots, they will go ahead as planned and I wish them all of the luck, and hope it is a great adventure.

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Chris Henry
EAA Aviation Museum Manager

I'm interested in what everyone thinks about the risk level of:

1) Racing warbirds at Reno. Certainly some risk there.

2) Low altitude acro in warbirds

3) Flying cross country over inhospitable terrain, where a forced landing is probably not an option and the pilot is forced to bail out.

4) IFR or VFR on top

5) Scud running

We can all probably recall losing warbirds and pilots to all of the above.
So how do these relate to the risk level of a few hours over water?
All these things happen, but only #3 is really necessary if the aircraft is based near hostile terrain. Where GG made her maiden flights, there is no where to go if you have trouble on take off.
I'm not taking sides, just would like to here your guys opinions in the relative risk level of the above.

Steve G

Well for the most part you don't see the only example of a warbird racing at reno. Most of the aircraft there are P-51, F4u's, T-6's, and others. If you lose power there, ther is at least a safe place to try to put her down. If the thing is on fire, and you have to bail, at least you are on ground. Low Acro in warbirds such as a GG is stupid, and should not be done, same goes with scud running. I don't do that in my Warrior let alone a P-38. As for the WX conditions, I think that alot of flying museums have a rule that is VFR only. At least there are certain Wings of the CAF that do. If I had a choice to try and make a forced landing in Middlesboro, KY or the ocean, I think I would take the field in KY.

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Chris Henry
EAA Aviation Museum Manager

How many vintage warbirds have been lost in ferry flights over the Atlantic in the past 30 years?

What a fun site. Just joined. I have to say that everyone makes very compelling arguments from both sides about GG and the TF flying around the Atlantic. We are installing a satellite tracking and communications system in the Mustang that will enable to you follow us live on www.airshowbuzz.com. You can even email us questions from the ASB site that we can answer from the air. Once again, great site! Wish us luck. See you on the other side. (Ed Shipley)

Mr Shipley,

Best of luck on your upcoming flight. Keep us posted.

Steve G

The wife did it in a UH-1 ... The army didn't give them survival suits or anything... She said she was very concerned..

Welcome to the board Mr. Shipley!!

I think this will be a very fun adventure. Thanks for the link, I'll be keeping tabs on ya!!

On a more personal note, have you given thought to posting some kind of web based log of your preperations so those of us that follow these quests can read about what your taking as far as supplies, etc. ( Are ya takin any Beemans along to break the monotony.... )

best of luck, Frank

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One day I looked up and he's pushing 80...
He's got brown tobacco stains all down his chin.
To me he's one of the hero's of this country, so why is he all dressed up like them ole men....

Just curious if you guys are going the blue spruce route with stops in BIKF and BGSF. Who are you going to use Universal, BaseOps, Air Routing or Jeppesen for customs, canpass, ground handler arrangements, aiway charges, overflight permits and such. Also no mention of HF and curious what a/c will provide chase something like a King Air or PC-12? Since, you'll be non-RVSM and non-8.33

Will enjoy watching you make this crossing on our flight tracking software.

Warren

As for ocean flight some guys, may have been Howard Pardue, Jarry Janes etc.,years ago flew a B-25 across to Hawaii. An airline piot overheard them and commented "You're a little late"! Ward Wilkins, ferried a 51 across with Ray Middleton. They wore survival suits pulled up only to their waist, still very hot in a Mustang at low altitude. I don't know of any warbird in modern times that has not made it. I have read a story of a Mustang years ago that was coming to the states with a French ferry pilot who had almost no time in type and he lost it on a go around in Greenland.

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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

Bill,

That go-around accident was probably Bill Lear Jr's P-51 that he had just sold.

Steve G

Hi Bill,
A PBY made about half way from here to NZ before they ditched and she sank leaving them to bob for a while on the big blue before they were rescued about 6-7 years ago or so.

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Don't touch my junk!!

I should have said, I don't know jack, but I bet Jack does. Ok, Wizard of the WIX, tell us more of the PBY incident, aren't those things supposed to float? If I went I'd like it to be in a seaplane, maybe the Spruce Goose or if in a single engine fighter, I'd like to have the engine builder in the back seat.

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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK