!000 More To Remember
Mon May 28, 2007 8:55 am
I was watching TV news this morning as I was getting ready for a motorcycle race, and thinking about Memorial Day. There are now another 1000 dead servicemen and women to mourn since this time last year. The news did not mention those without legs or eyes, but still alive.
Mon May 28, 2007 12:59 pm
Considering your past we all know where your going with this. So let's just cut to the chase. Bill, you think a little better when you don't have that hair peice & coloring cooking your brain.. There isn't a draft going on! .. I was heliping a Injured marine this Holiday season and he is 4 times the man you'll ever be.. Of all days ,,,,,,,,,, I don't want to read rambelings today from a able bodied F Up. If you went to Nam instead of hiding in the air national guard you would have some creditability! I'm not sure you would have had the courage to fight in the battle of Britian if required. So fly that Spitfire till your blue in the face because it isn't going to make you more of a man. Cowards should just know when keep their mouths closed Bill!
Look ma no hair
http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/p ... p?p=124769
Look ma no hair
http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/p ... p?p=124769
Last edited by Broken-Wrench on Mon May 28, 2007 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mon May 28, 2007 4:10 pm
Wow....didn't take long for this thread to get nasty!!!
John
Marines
Mon May 28, 2007 5:50 pm
Helping Marines or any other servicemen sounds like a good thing. I think it is a better approach to consider their welfare, before they are dead or maimed.
Mon May 28, 2007 11:16 pm
Considering your past we all know where your going with this. So let's just cut to the chase. Bill, you think a little better when you don't have that hair peice & coloring cooking your brain.. There isn't a draft going on! .. I was heliping a Injured marine this Holiday season and he is 4 times the man you'll ever be.. Of all days ,,,,,,,,,, I don't want to read rambelings today from a able bodied F Up. If you went to Nam instead of hiding in the air national guard you would have some creditability! I'm not sure you would have had the courage to fight in the battle of Britian if required. So fly that Spitfire till your blue in the face because it isn't going to make you more of a man. Cowards should just know when keep their mouths closed Bill!
Grow up.
Mon May 28, 2007 11:43 pm
I always promised myself I'd keep quite when it came to this sort of stuff, but.....
I’m on my 16th year in the Air Force and have had more involvement with Iraq and Afghanistan than I care to discuss. I don’t know exactly how many dead there are from these wars, but I know how many I’ve carried home tied to the floor of my airplane. I don’t know how many wounded we have from these wars, but I know how many I’ve carried to hospitals in the back of my plane. I also know exactly how many of those wounded have ended up dead in the back of my plane. I know the names and in many instances, I know the faces of these guys and girls. I’ve got the name of a young Marine written in my log book that was wounded beyond anything I’ve ever seen and he was mad as heck that he had to go to a hospital instead of staying with his fellow jarheads. His only other concern was that he get to call his mother when he got to Germany because “she worried about him if he didn’t call”. I know her name and address and for the rest of my life the conversation I had with her son will haunt me. I’ll go to my grave wondering if he got to call her. I wonder that because I carried his remains from Germany to the morgue at Dover, Delaware a couple of days later. There is a lot about “my” war that I won’t tell. But I will tell you this. The number of military members I’ve carried dead wounded and alive, in and out of wars is astronomical. However, the number that say we shouldn’t be there or the war is wrong is very small. Now I’ve met several that say “this is where we are going wrong” or “what we should do is this, if we want to end this war” but I’ve met very dam few that say “We shouldn’t be there” or “Bush is an idiot”. Some do say that and I know the number of people that I talk to about this very subject on the airplane is pretty small. But I do make a point to ask the people doing the fighting what they think. In the past, I’ve also made it a point to pass these views along to my friends and family through email, in an effort to balance out the nonsense they get from the news, both Fox and CNN.
I don’t know if the war is right or wrong. I also don’t care. I don’t know how many “innocent” Iraqis have died. I also don’t care. I don’t know if we have done anything right. I also don’t care. There is a lot about the world that I don’t know and don’t care about. There are also a few things I do know and do care about. First, not a single person is in the military today by force. 100% volunteer. Yea maybe they didn’t join up to fight this war. Too darn bad, you do as you’re told. In the reserves or guard and didn’t sign up for this? Too darn bad, you do as you’re told.
Second, I know the guys and girls that are fighting this war. Or at least I know the type because I come into contact with them, all over the world on a daily basis, in good times and in bad. Everybody goes on and on about how the WWII vets are the greatest generation and God bless them for it. There war was the last “popular” one, where half the country wasn’t full of people that thought they knew more than anybody about running a war. There war was the last one where everything wasn’t second guessed by the rest of the world. There war was the last one where you could slap the snot out of an enemy soldier to get valuable information without everybody else screaming about civil rights. There war was the last one where the military was left alone, to do things without having their hands tied behind their backs. Their war was the last one where you could kill “civilians” that were aiding your enemy without everybody else putting it all over the news. There war was the last one where civilians in the states, who don’t have any business doing it (notice I didn’t say right) didn’t question every single decision, movement, event, happening or “unconfirmed report”, about every darn thing the military did.
I don’t want to take anything away from the WWII vets, they are my hero’s. However if you want to see the Greatest Generation, take a look at the military you have today. Maybe their war isn’t popular, but they are better people than most of us will ever be.
There probably isn’t two people in this world with more polar opposite views about politics than Bill and myself. I’ve know him for many years, back from the glory days of Breckenridge. I’ve never had the chance to sit and discuss politics with him, but I’d love to do it. I don’t agree with ANYTHING he says about the war but I’m all for letting him say it. If nothing else, I like the fact that he is man enough to stand up and do it. The majority of people won’t do that. Bill has taken some pretty serious abuse on this board, without being nasty in return and I admire him for taking it and coming back. He doesn’t fly around in his Spitfire pretending to be re-fighting the Battle of Britain anymore than the rest of us would if we had the chance. He has made no secret of his views, military background or political leanings. It doesn’t mean I don’t get mad about some of the things he says, because I do. There are three Sergeant Pilgrims in the Air Force today and they are all related to me. We all voted for Bush, both times and would do it again.
Keep posting Bill, I like to hear both sides!
I’m on my 16th year in the Air Force and have had more involvement with Iraq and Afghanistan than I care to discuss. I don’t know exactly how many dead there are from these wars, but I know how many I’ve carried home tied to the floor of my airplane. I don’t know how many wounded we have from these wars, but I know how many I’ve carried to hospitals in the back of my plane. I also know exactly how many of those wounded have ended up dead in the back of my plane. I know the names and in many instances, I know the faces of these guys and girls. I’ve got the name of a young Marine written in my log book that was wounded beyond anything I’ve ever seen and he was mad as heck that he had to go to a hospital instead of staying with his fellow jarheads. His only other concern was that he get to call his mother when he got to Germany because “she worried about him if he didn’t call”. I know her name and address and for the rest of my life the conversation I had with her son will haunt me. I’ll go to my grave wondering if he got to call her. I wonder that because I carried his remains from Germany to the morgue at Dover, Delaware a couple of days later. There is a lot about “my” war that I won’t tell. But I will tell you this. The number of military members I’ve carried dead wounded and alive, in and out of wars is astronomical. However, the number that say we shouldn’t be there or the war is wrong is very small. Now I’ve met several that say “this is where we are going wrong” or “what we should do is this, if we want to end this war” but I’ve met very dam few that say “We shouldn’t be there” or “Bush is an idiot”. Some do say that and I know the number of people that I talk to about this very subject on the airplane is pretty small. But I do make a point to ask the people doing the fighting what they think. In the past, I’ve also made it a point to pass these views along to my friends and family through email, in an effort to balance out the nonsense they get from the news, both Fox and CNN.
I don’t know if the war is right or wrong. I also don’t care. I don’t know how many “innocent” Iraqis have died. I also don’t care. I don’t know if we have done anything right. I also don’t care. There is a lot about the world that I don’t know and don’t care about. There are also a few things I do know and do care about. First, not a single person is in the military today by force. 100% volunteer. Yea maybe they didn’t join up to fight this war. Too darn bad, you do as you’re told. In the reserves or guard and didn’t sign up for this? Too darn bad, you do as you’re told.
Second, I know the guys and girls that are fighting this war. Or at least I know the type because I come into contact with them, all over the world on a daily basis, in good times and in bad. Everybody goes on and on about how the WWII vets are the greatest generation and God bless them for it. There war was the last “popular” one, where half the country wasn’t full of people that thought they knew more than anybody about running a war. There war was the last one where everything wasn’t second guessed by the rest of the world. There war was the last one where you could slap the snot out of an enemy soldier to get valuable information without everybody else screaming about civil rights. There war was the last one where the military was left alone, to do things without having their hands tied behind their backs. Their war was the last one where you could kill “civilians” that were aiding your enemy without everybody else putting it all over the news. There war was the last one where civilians in the states, who don’t have any business doing it (notice I didn’t say right) didn’t question every single decision, movement, event, happening or “unconfirmed report”, about every darn thing the military did.
I don’t want to take anything away from the WWII vets, they are my hero’s. However if you want to see the Greatest Generation, take a look at the military you have today. Maybe their war isn’t popular, but they are better people than most of us will ever be.
There probably isn’t two people in this world with more polar opposite views about politics than Bill and myself. I’ve know him for many years, back from the glory days of Breckenridge. I’ve never had the chance to sit and discuss politics with him, but I’d love to do it. I don’t agree with ANYTHING he says about the war but I’m all for letting him say it. If nothing else, I like the fact that he is man enough to stand up and do it. The majority of people won’t do that. Bill has taken some pretty serious abuse on this board, without being nasty in return and I admire him for taking it and coming back. He doesn’t fly around in his Spitfire pretending to be re-fighting the Battle of Britain anymore than the rest of us would if we had the chance. He has made no secret of his views, military background or political leanings. It doesn’t mean I don’t get mad about some of the things he says, because I do. There are three Sergeant Pilgrims in the Air Force today and they are all related to me. We all voted for Bush, both times and would do it again.
Keep posting Bill, I like to hear both sides!
Tue May 29, 2007 1:51 am
Brad wrote:I always promised myself I'd keep quite when it came to this sort of stuff, but.....
Brad, no need to keep quiet. I think what you wrote was very well thought out and I enjoyed reading it. That's one of the many freedoms that our WWII vets (and in many ways todays soldiers) fought (and are fighting for) - our right to express our opposing views. We are each entitled to our own opinions, right, wrong or indifferent, it doesn't matter.
I know I have read plenty on here that I disagree with, but that's the beauty of it - I can still definitely enjoy reading it. I like things being a little spiced up from time to time, I don't think we all need to sit around singing Kumbaya to agree on the subject of warbirds. I like being able to see a situation through someone elses eyes and to get a different perspective on things. Points are brought up that I hadn't taken into consideration and I feel like a better person when I can try to see things in a different way.
I think the personal attacks are uncalled for though and admittedly I was disappointed to see it.
Anyhow, it is late here, and I might not even be making sense. My point was to send my compliments to Brad for his post, and for saying that I agree 100%. I think we all bring something interesting to this site and that's what makes it enjoyable.
Stephanie
Thanks
Tue May 29, 2007 6:51 am
Brad, thanks for your comments. Yes, it gets a old sometimes with personal attacks, but I can see for the most part it is mostly one guy, sometimes one or two more. I appreciate your statement, one other I did was from Jack Cook in a previous debate who disageed with me, but sent me a PM that said he regretted someone's over the line personal attacks.
Why Not Drink The Kool Aid?
Tue May 29, 2007 7:21 am
Why even write about the losses from the war? It would be easy to be patriotic following the party line, and since most people love Spitfires I get praise for flying and maintaining it more than is due. Obviously, it is because I think this is vital. Maybe, just maybe, my one voice added to the many others might cause someone to rethink their veiws, their next vote. The lives and limbs of these young people is what I care about. Probably more than half my life we have been involved in some war. Maybe the cause was just, maybe not, but one constant is the slaughter of young people, all too often in wars started by old guys who never had the guts for combat( LBJ,Nixon, Cheney, Bush) but are real brave with other peoples sons and even daughters. Everyone, pro or anti should go on the site on Wix Hangar "Memorial Day", where Shay has posted the link showing Moms and Wives and small children in deeepest sorrow at the funeral of their loved ones. A 6 year old boy doesn't know how brave it is to "nuke em all", he knows his Dad is gone or even worse his Mom.
Tue May 29, 2007 10:10 am
Bill Greenwood fanclub checking in 
Tue May 29, 2007 11:34 am
Broken-Wrench wrote:Considering your past we all know where your going with this. So let's just cut to the chase. Bill, you think a little better when you don't have that hair peice & coloring cooking your brain.. There isn't a draft going on! .. I was heliping a Injured marine this Holiday season and he is 4 times the man you'll ever be.. Of all days ,,,,,,,,,, I don't want to read rambelings today from a able bodied F Up. If you went to Nam instead of hiding in the air national guard you would have some creditability! I'm not sure you would have had the courage to fight in the battle of Britian if required. So fly that Spitfire till your blue in the face because it isn't going to make you more of a man. Cowards should just know when keep their mouths closed Bill!
Look ma no hair
http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/p ... p?p=124769
Wow
Maybe they joined that service because they were interested in aviation. Just like we all are here.
-Nathan
Tue May 29, 2007 12:00 pm
One thing I've learned from this war is that it's far more difficult to liberate another country and to champion the concept of freedom when the forces behind the fight (namely the United States) prioritize the infighting amongst its own ranks. Working single-mindedly as a nation, we were able to conquer Germany and Japan in short order and all but walk away after leading their people toward freedom...and those were some seriously extremist countries! As for today?...
Unlike the focus of Allied willpower during WWII, the US government's modern motivation is set squarely on retaining party power rather than actually winning this most legitimate of conflicts. Every decision surrounding this war is based firstly on the perspective of "Republican vs. Democrat" rather than on that of "Free World vs. Radical Islam". That is the only reason why we have not absolutely dominated the fight overseas - period. This is yet one more reason I hesitate to respond to posts that are obviously fueled by party agents pumping political agendas. There is a real enemy out there that is quite defeatable, but the massive circle jerk currently dominating Washington and its throng of indoctrinated domestic cheerleaders is proving the downfall of our success overseas.
Everyone knows that brothers will fight brothers, but when strangers jump in the mix, the brothers take the fight to the outsiders first then settle their own differences afterwards. Not so in today's polarized United States. If anyone is looking for the reason we will lose the fight in Iraq, look no further than the orchestrated divide between the Liberals and the Conservatives right here at home. God willing, once America solves its own internal identity crisis, then we might be able to get on with defending what we've then come to know (and hopefully rediscover) of ourselves.
Unlike the focus of Allied willpower during WWII, the US government's modern motivation is set squarely on retaining party power rather than actually winning this most legitimate of conflicts. Every decision surrounding this war is based firstly on the perspective of "Republican vs. Democrat" rather than on that of "Free World vs. Radical Islam". That is the only reason why we have not absolutely dominated the fight overseas - period. This is yet one more reason I hesitate to respond to posts that are obviously fueled by party agents pumping political agendas. There is a real enemy out there that is quite defeatable, but the massive circle jerk currently dominating Washington and its throng of indoctrinated domestic cheerleaders is proving the downfall of our success overseas.
Everyone knows that brothers will fight brothers, but when strangers jump in the mix, the brothers take the fight to the outsiders first then settle their own differences afterwards. Not so in today's polarized United States. If anyone is looking for the reason we will lose the fight in Iraq, look no further than the orchestrated divide between the Liberals and the Conservatives right here at home. God willing, once America solves its own internal identity crisis, then we might be able to get on with defending what we've then come to know (and hopefully rediscover) of ourselves.
Tue May 29, 2007 12:38 pm
Very well said, Rob.
Gary
Gary
Tue May 29, 2007 1:00 pm
Broken-Wrench wrote: If you went to Nam instead of hiding in the air national guard you would have some creditability!
Ummm...interesting statement! The same could be applied to a certain individual in Washington as well.
I don't mean to stir the pot but I do have to agree with Rob in many ways. Unfortunately our elected officials (on both ends of the aisle) care more about the next election and keeping themselves in office than you, me, or the soldiers on the ground.
I respect everyone on these forums whether they share my views or not. Ryan and I recently had a pretty heated debate on religion and censorship when it comes to nose art, etc. While I don't agree with him on many things I still respect his opinion and treated him with courtesy. What I'm trying to get at is let's try to refrain from the personal insults towards one another. It accomplishes nothing and just ends up in hurt feelings and bruised egos.
Now everyone gather round for a group hug!!! 
John
Tue May 29, 2007 1:17 pm
Ummm...interesting statement! The same could be applied to a certain individual in Washington as well. Rolling Eyes
I don't mean to stir the pot but I do have to agree with Rob in many ways. Unfortunately our elected officials (on both ends of the aisle) care more about the next election and keeping themselves in office than you, me, or the soldiers on the ground.
I respect everyone on these forums whether they share my views or not. Ryan and I recently had a pretty heated debate on religion and censorship when it comes to nose art, etc. While I don't agree with him on many things I still respect his opinion and treated him with courtesy. What I'm trying to get at is let's try to refrain from the personal insults towards one another. It accomplishes nothing and just ends up in hurt feelings and bruised egos. Confused Now everyone gather round for a group hug!!! Razz
John
I would like to admonish you all for putting me in the uncomfortable position of agreeing with John.
