Fiesler Fi167

stuart murdoch · **Joined:** Tue Sep 14, 2004 12:05 am **Posts:** 73

Hi guys

I'm interested in the Fi167, I have browsed the web etc., and can find little information on the a/c.

What would it take to reconstruct an a/c such as this, structurally how complex is it.

I'm asking this as I can find no information on how it was constructed, does anyone know if it is/was similar to the Storch?

I know the powerplant is a potential problem as there are few available.

Stuart

mrhenniger · **Posted:** Mon Nov 08, 2004 9:10 am

I believe the page Rob is referring to is...

http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/fi167.html

Regards,

Mike

stuart murdoch · **Joined:** Tue Sep 14, 2004 12:05 am **Posts:** 73

Thks Guys,

I've think I've seen all there is on the web, and managed to dig out a little bit more info than is there.

Apparently there were 2 prototypes and 12 pre-production machines, 9 of which went to Romania and the balance were used for various purposes at Budweis Czechoslovakia.

No mention of the fate of the Czech machines, but from what I can gather the Romanian examples were quickly scrapped before wars end.

But how difficult would it be to resurect the beast

Stuart

Scott Rose · **Posted:** Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:56 pm

stuart murdoch wrote:

But how difficult would it be to resurect the beast

Stuart

As with a lot of extinct or rare types, especially German ones I would expect the most difficult part would be the power plant. The Germans penchant for using inverted V engines seems to be a bane for warbird builders. As for plans I would think they would be nearly impossible to come by.

It would be a neat aircraft to make a cosmetic replica of though.

Tulio · **Joined:** Mon May 03, 2004 1:05 am **Posts:** 3236

Stuart:

Have you tried the Bundesarchiv, in Koblenz, Germany?

I know that they allow accredited investigators there, but if you joined with a person who already has an established reputation, maybe they would grant you access?

It is my understanding that lots of documents, photos, plans, etc. survived the war and have been stored in Koblenz.

Hope this helps.

Saludos,

Tulio

Mikael O · **Posted:** Tue Nov 09, 2004 7:28 am

hi Guys,

I'm sorry to spoil the party... :oops:

If I remember correctly no Fi 167 where ever sold to Rumania. They where sold directly from Germany to Croatia which used by them for some time. A few aircraft were captured by the "reds" and put in use, some even surviving into the years after WWII.

I know that there has been profiles of Rumanian Fi 167 published but there's no photo to prove that any aircraft were actually delivered there. There are some other aircraft types that are rumoured to have served with Rumanian Air Force, but which it seems have not.

I tried to locate the website where I read a thread about aircraft that has not served with Rumanian AF despite it has been printed in books.

No aircraft or any part of a Fi 167 has survived as far as I know.
/Mike

Cees Broere · **Posted:** Tue Nov 09, 2004 11:38 am

Weren't these specially designed and built for the never completed Graf Zeppeling aircraft carrier?

Cees

hairy · **Posted:** Tue Nov 09, 2004 3:45 pm

Really scratching here but I distinctly remember someone advertising Fi-167s for sale in one of those anonamous ads in Trade-a-Plane in the the late '80s, the a/c were claimed to be in Yugoslavia. :rolleyes:

RMAllnutt · **Posted:** Tue Nov 09, 2004 3:50 pm

There are some interesting details on the Graf Zeppelin here. Apparently she was scuttled by the Germans just before the end of the war. However, she supposedly sank in water shallow enough for her to be recovered by the Soviets. Interesting story...

http://www.fact-index.com/g/ge/german_aircraft_carrier_graf_zeppelin.html

... I wonder what the truth actually is?

Richard

RMAllnutt · **Posted:** Tue Nov 09, 2004 3:53 pm

More interesting details on the Graf Zeppelin, including pictures, here...

http://www.geocities.com/pentagon/2833/kriegsmarine/carrier/grafzeppelin/grafzeppelin.html

Richard

Ollie · **Posted:** Tue Nov 09, 2004 4:12 pm

She was taken as a war prize, and then use by the Soviets to test armour efficiency.

stuart murdoch · **Joined:** Tue Sep 14, 2004 12:05 am **Posts:** 73

Thks Guys for the help

Tolio, unfortunately I know no one who could help with the Bundesarchiv, so I'm back to square one again, but thks anyway.

Mike, thks for adding to the confusion, I am not disputing your knowledge, but everything I can find on the a/c states 9 went to Romania, after 60 some odd years it is difficult to find information from that part of the world, you may be right so I shall keep an open mind on the subject, maybe there is someone out there who knows, we shall see.

Hairy, thks for yours also, a local friend mentioned this a while back, he remembers looking for Storch parts and finding an ad about a Fiesler a/c he didn't know existed, he said it was a biplane, but he can't remember where or when, I showed him a photo of an Fi167 and he was sure this was what was advertised.

Interesting, Romania or Croatia/Yugoslavia, where did they go, and by some chance might there actually be something/parts surviving?

Stuart

Mikael O · **Posted:** Wed Nov 10, 2004 3:18 am

Hi Stuart,

I did locate the discussion on a forum dedicated to Rumanian AF.

http://www.worldwar2.ro/forum/index.php?showtopic=1449

You will also find the origins of the myth of Rumaninan Fi 167 explained there.

It is true that there was an add of Fi 167 in the aviation press in the 80's. A person I discussed this with said that he responded to the add, but didn't receive any reply in turn. So it was probably nothing, or refering to Fi 156 aircraft whích would be a logical explanation. One has to remember that the Fi 167 was a very large aircraft and it would have taken a lot of space to store 4 aircraft of the type.

Best wishes
/mike

stuart murdoch · **Joined:** Tue Sep 14, 2004 12:05 am **Posts:** 73

Mike,

Thks for the link, really interesting makes the point I was saying about it being difficult to get firm information after 60+ years.

So no trip to Rumania is on the cards next summer, maybe somewhere in the new states of the old Yugoslavia there might be parts languishing in a scrap yard, but somehow I doubt it.

And yes it would take a lot of space to store 4 a/c of this size, I have come accross many spoof adverts for various a/c like this in the past, coupled with the occassional "you pay me money I give you location of very rare a/c with war history" usually it is just a scam or wishfull thinking.

Stuart

hairy · **Posted:** Thu Nov 11, 2004 7:43 pm

A little history on the Fi 167;
On Dec. 28 1936 the keel of "carrier A" was laid on slip number 1 at Deutsche Werke Kiel.
Early in 1937 Arado and Fieseler submitted proposals to meet a spec. issued for a 2 seat multi-purpose shipboard a/c that was to be an all metal biplane with folding wings,stressed for adiving speed up to373mph,an offensive load of 1100lbs, a max speed of no less than186mph, a cruising speed of 155mph, and a range of no less than 620 miles. 3 prototypes were ordered from each company,they were the Ar 195 and the Fi 167 designed by Reinhold Mewes to be built at the Fieseler plant at Bettenhausen.
The prototypes of both a/c werecompleted in the summer of 1938, but the Ar 195 was unable to meet the performance criteria due to serious drag issues which turned out to be too fundamental for the Arado design team to rectify without substantial redesign. Meanwhile the Fi 167 V1 and V2 exceeded the official requirements in every respect during test flying at Rechlin.(Max speed-202mph, cruising speed-168mph, range-808m(932 w/droptank) and a 2205lb bomb load).
As a result further developnent on the Ar 195 was abandoned and a pre-production series of 12 Fi 167A-0s were ordered. (As the trials of the Fi 167 V1 and V2 were soo successful Fieseler decided that it was unnecessary to complete the third prototype.)

On Dec 8 1938 "carrier A" was launched and christened Graf Zeppelin, as it was not expected to be commisioned before the summer of 1940 construction of the Fi 167A-0 series recieved no special priority wiyh flight testing, beginning with TJ + AJ, not starting untill early 1940. By this time it was decided that the dive bombing role was to be filled by the Ju 87C-0, the Fi 167 being relegated to torpedo bombing and recon.

In May 1940 construction on the Graf Zeppelin was halted, but the constrution of the 12 Fi 167A-0s was continued with, all of the a/c accepted by the Luftwaffe in the summer of 1940 with Erprobungsstaffel (test squadron) 167 being formed for operational trials.

In late Sept. 1941 the 11th a/c KG + QE was loaned to the Daimler-Benz test center at Echterdingen for various engine trials.

On May 13, 1942 the order was given to resume construction of the Graf Zepplin. By this time E-Staffel 167 with 9 Fi 167s on strength had been transferred to Holland for advanced service trials in Dutch coastal areas.
But the decision had been made to adapt the Ju 87D into a torpedo bomber as the Ju 87E making the Fi 167 redundant.

The Fi 167s remained in Holland untill early 1943 being involved in experimental work including testing various overwater camo schemes. E-Staffel 167 then returned to Germany where it was disbanded, the remaining Fi 167s were returned to Fieseler for overhaul.

3 Fi 167s were then delivered to the DVL ( German Aviation experimental institute) undercarriage test center at Budweis, where they were used for measuring landing shocks under various load conditions. The a/c were flown as both biplanes and as highly loaded sesquiplanes(!) with the lower wings being removed outboard of the u/c with extra struts supporting the upper wings (I assume this was testing to destuction).

The few remaining refurbished aFi 167A-0s were then sold to.................(?)

It would be nice to get a definative answer to the end of this, can anybody help?

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