Warbird Information Exchange

You may be right Mr. Beyl...just write-off my "aghastitude" to "sticker-shock"!

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He bowls overhand...He is the most interesting man in the world.
"In Peace Japan Breeds War", Eckstein, Harper and Bros., 3rd ed. 1943(1927, 1928,1942)
"Leave it to ol' Slim. I got ideas...and they're all vile, baby." South Dakota Slim
"Ahh..."The Deuce", 28,000 pounds of motherly love." quote from some Mojave Grunt
DBF

I AGREE IT LOOKS LIKE ALLOT OF GOODIES LAYING THERE !!ITS THE GEAR AND RELATED PARTS THAT ARE DIFFICULT TO COME BY THE SHEET METAL PARTS ARE NOT THAT TOUGH TO MFG.WITH THE SPARE PARTS THATS NOT A BAD PRICE TO GET A MUSTANG PROJECT,AFTER ALL DONT WE ALL WANT ONE? THANKS MIKE

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IF YOU CAN FIND IT WE CAN FIX IT

You WANT a Mustang? Say it isn't so, Mike! I was CERTAIN you were a round-engine diehard. This is a dark day...I am completely crushed.

Calling all roundies: We have apparently lost one of our own to the dark side. Remain steadfast and true...never waver!

Put on your tin hats and load your trench guns!

Round rules! Pointy drools!

Bring it on, pointies!

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It was a good idea, it just didn't work.

Don't you really mean "Pointy rules and roundies DROOL?" Ever look under a radial vs. an inline? Defense rests....and get the diapers for roundheads!

Just teasin' I love 'em all. To prove I can't live without either type, I was CC on Bob Ponds Bearcat when it was up in the TC's....Nuthin' like a 2800...nuthin!

Now John, you know as well as I do that the black stuff (not drool) that drips from round engines simply (and safely) indicates that there is still black stuff on board and the engine is ready to operate.

The green stuff that drips from pointy engines (drool) indicates that all is not well and the engine is about to throw something through the cowling.

Agree with you 110% on the 2800 thing!

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It was a good idea, it just didn't work.

John

Ever seen the sign that states ' Radials don't leak..they are just marking their territory ' ?

Dave

The Shuttleworth airplane was not an original TF...it was actually one of the more important combat veteran Mustangs out there, having been one of the actual Mustangs Robin Olds flew in WWII.

I spoke with General Olds once (Oct '03) about it being converted to a TF, and got all teary when he commented that it was because of that conversion that he was able to fly his old P-51 again...

Just so I can be a big show-off, here's shot of myself and BG Olds at my squadron's reunion last year (479th Fighter Group). He's probably one of the most important pilots/leaders that I've ever met in my life, thus this photo sits right on my desk:

Nice photo Randy, and a Great Bedtime Story. Starts out Brothers Grimm
and ends Cinderella. A "Master Thespian" tale in 2 brief sentences!
Thanx,

_________________
He bowls overhand...He is the most interesting man in the world.
"In Peace Japan Breeds War", Eckstein, Harper and Bros., 3rd ed. 1943(1927, 1928,1942)
"Leave it to ol' Slim. I got ideas...and they're all vile, baby." South Dakota Slim
"Ahh..."The Deuce", 28,000 pounds of motherly love." quote from some Mojave Grunt
DBF

Randy:
I've stayed late at the O-club a few times with Gen. Olds. I'd follow him anywhere, he's that kind of leader. Plus, his entertainment/singing skills are par excellance!
VL

SORRY DAN I WAS JOKING ROUND MOTORS FOREVER!!I WOULD MUCH RATHER BUILD A HELLCAT !! THANKS MIKE

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IF YOU CAN FIND IT WE CAN FIX IT

Probably more accurate to say 'it had the same tail number as one of the actual Mustangs Robin Olds flew in WWII.'

That's a matter of interpretation.

I fly military airplanes currently, and while they are *in service* I have seen that they get massive rebuilds, both structural and superficial, all the time. The T-38 fleet I fly has had re-skinning, re-winging, longeron replacement, re-engining, new intakes, new nozzles, complete cockpit overhaul and avionics change, and many variations of those modifications in between. The serial number painted on the tail and printed in the aircraft forms never changes throughout these upgrades, modifications, and replacements -- even when the airplane used to be a T-38A or B, but is now a T-38C. No military aviation enthusiasts ever deem it necessary call these aircraft "the one that used to be T-38 66-1357". The airframes keep the same identity regardless of how much metal is the same on it as when it left the Northrop factory (that percentage is probably pretty low).

So why is it that when a major rebuild occurs *after* a military airplane has left military service that some warbird people start to question the authenticity of an aircraft's identification? Remember, these aircraft probably had similar rebuilds while they were in military service, too. You are correct that many warbirds -- Mustangs especially -- have questionable identities. These are airplanes that on *paper only* have a particular identity. This aircraft is not one of those, even though this fuselage has different wings, different skin, and is in a different configuration from when it rolled out the factory (again, I reference some T-38s I fly which have had very nearly the same things done to them...).

So, back to the original point. You're right -- if your definition of the originality of a warbird rests on the actual metal in the aircraft, then perhaps the percentage of metal in the Shuttleworth Mustang that actually flew in combat over Germany is low...say 10% even. Does it really make it a different aircraft?

I don't happen to believe that way, in any case, based on my experiences with current military aircraft.

Have to agree with this. The plane went through Cavalier and we all know what happened there. Then the rebuild is to TF standard. This means that you build a TF fuselage and incorporate it in the project, not that you fix the D fuselage into dual control. So basically, not much of the genuine "Scat VII" around anymore!

T J Johansen

Actually, nothing happened there. It was an airframe in the Cavalier parts stock which was subsequently sold off to Gordon Plaskett. No modifications or rebuilds were performed on it while in Sarasota.

Have to agree with this. The plane went through Cavalier and we all know what happened there. Then the rebuild is to TF standard. This means that you build a TF fuselage and incorporate it in the project, not that you fix the D fuselage into dual control. So basically, not much of the genuine "Scat VII" around anymore!

T J Johansen[/quote]

A TF fuselage is not very different from a stock one. They arnt new build incorperated to a rebuild.