Warbird Information Exchange

Yep - gotta agree with the post above. Save it for the FAA and NTSB.

Wade

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Website: http://www.wademeyersart.com
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No, not eagerly more an 'matter of fact'

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Don't touch my junk!!

I thought it was okay. Just one person's eye witness account of what they saw and what aircraft race was taking place. No mention of aircraft N number, pilot or what state they were from. Also they didn't speculate or try to theorize what happened, just accounted what they thought they saw first person with their own eyes. No gossip or hearsay.
My condolences go out to all. Turning out to be a bad year for the Reno AIr Races.

Let me clarify my previous post. What I have a BIG problem with is the fact that someone would say, “Out of respect to the pilot's family I'm not going to post the pictures,” and then in the next second, mention that in the photos, you can see the pilot’s body hurtling out of the fireball.

Some people seem to forget that this accident was very real and very, very personal for a lot of people. A more thoughtful post might have said, “I will not post the photos out of respect for the pilot’s family.” PERIOD / FULL STOP.

The WIX forum may be a relatively small, tight-knit community, but many outside people, including friends and family members of those involved, search through it when accidents happen. They do this in an effort to find out information – any information – that can help mend their wounds and find out what might have happened. No, this is not a counseling site, and we shouldn’t have to censor our posts to the extreme, just use some common sense...

If you actually have respect for the family’s feelings, why would you describe the accident in such graphic terms in the very same posting? Why does anyone need to read that kind of detail? Isn’t it shocking enough that the accident happened at all?

Sorry, but I'm pretty disgusted.

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Buck Wyndham
Editor, WarbirdAlley.com
Warbird Instructor Pilot

I dunno. I have always been of the mindset that if it happened, it happened. If photos were shot, then photos were shot. Never been a very senitive person, i guess. But if it were my old man in the image I would expect new agencies to pick the best photo that describes the news story, not the most sensitive. Mind, the goriest is what you get under that system because there are too many idiots in the world who want to see the gore, but...

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"I knew the jig was up when I saw the P-51D-20-NA Mustang blue-nosed bastards from Bodney, and by the way the blue was more of a royal blue than an indigo and the inner landing gear interiors were NOT green, over Berlin."

[quote="muddyboots"]I dunno. I have always been of the mindset that if it happened, it happened. quote]

That's a pretty free and easy place to live Muddy.

No matter what the media (including idle gossip), to read or hear thoughtless remarks, or misinformation about a lost friend really tends to cut deep. Walk a mile in the families and friends shoes before speaking or showing photos. It’s a respect issue which is sadly lacking in the world today. You will never fully appreciate what I speak of until you experience it first hand. God knows I truly hope you never have to experience it.

John

I sent a PM to HOGDRIVER to explain my position. I will not make a public post on it.

Jack Cook Check you REGULAR EMAIL

Mark H

"Shocking"?

Hardly.

Since when is a fatal accident in high performance aviation that is performed close to the ground surprising, much less shocking?

EVERYONE who is involved in an aviation accident or incident has friends and relatives. EVERY crash is going to have a slew of fellow aviators in heart-wrenching sorrow for the loss of a compadre or family member. It's tragic when ANYONE morts in an airplane. One particular accident shouldn't be treated with kid gloves any more than any other just because somebody happens to know the person that it happened to.

I love it on WIX when we have big multi-page threads discussing accidents, but the minute it happens to someone that is known to a WIX poster, we immediately get the "don't speculate on this" or "don't discuss this until the reports come out" posts. YGBSM.

The thread a few weeks ago about the friendly fire incident here in Afghanistan didn't have some big post from me saying "DON'T SPECULATE ON THIS!" That's sure as he11 a pretty f*cking personal and sensitive subject right about now, but if the community wants to talk about it, go for it -- that's what a discussion forum is for. There are a lot of sad and grieving people in that incident, too, as well as some aviators I'm very close to who have an enormously heavy burden to bear the rest of their lives. None the less, if people want to talk about it and speculate, have a go...you just won't see me throwing in my opinion for obvious reasons.

Just in case any of you reading this forgot...high performance aviation is dangerous. Although much goes into mitigating that risk, mistakes and equipment malfunctions have FATAL results. Everyone who straps on a high performance airplane knows this as part of the assumed going in argument. If they haven't accepted that fact, then they are either ignorant or in denial.

I have lost numerous personal friends in military and civilian flying accidents. They are all tragic and gut-wrenching. It is no less tragic when it happens to someone I don't know.

None of them are "shocking" or a surprise.

Shock n. 1. A violent, unexpected disturbance of mental or emotional balance. I don't know what it says in your dictionary, but when an acquaintence dies (doesn't matter how) -- yeah, I feel a little shock for a while. If you don't, perhaps you ought to think about why not.

My point, as I've reiterated before, was that a post detailing my friend's body coming out of a fireball was INAPPROPRIATE, when what could have been said was, "I'm not going to post my photos out of respect," or something similar. End it there. Why continue, if you truly have "respect" for the family?

Simple concept, really.

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Buck Wyndham
Editor, WarbirdAlley.com
Warbird Instructor Pilot

Buck -

I wasn't implying that people should take the morting of a friend in stride. You're right -- that's the type of thing that should make every person take a hard look in the mirror every morning when they wake up.

As I said...they're all tragic. I'm sure you and many others are feeling the same way right about now.

My point, as I've reiterated before, was that a post detailing my friend's body coming out of a fireball was INAPPROPRIATE, when what could have been said was, "I'm not going to post my photos out of respect," or something similar. End it there. Why continue, if you truly have "respect" for the family?

In your past posts, you never said that it was your "friend" before. I think that may have changed my initial response a bit. For the record, Gary Hubler that died this morning at Reno was a good friend of a very good old friend of mine.

Mark H

I have to go with Randy on this one. I been in aviation going on 30 years in several different areas. No sh1t Dick Tracey, when you climb in, strap on that hauling a$$ piece of plunder, you know the risk. Thats just part of the deal if everything goes to crap. I hate it, but it is the nature of the Beast. If we can learn something from the pics or video, put it up. If you saw it happen, tell us what you saw. If you are trying to be the first guy on the block to tell BS or show something gruesome just to do it, then go pound sand. I have a bunch of people that I miss from this aviation thing, but I chose to be in it, & I always say a prayer for those affected in time of peril & pray to keep the other ones safe. If you are not going to accept that people do die in violent public displays that happen in this business/hobbie/sport, then I advise in a respectfull manor, you find something else of interest to get involved in. We love it when all goes well, we hurt & grieve when it goes bad, we carry on if aviation is where our heart is. I hope we do learn some things from the recent traject events that helps us to be safer. I do request that the wanna be accident investigation experts, & regulation application specialist, chill out & let those involved that are the experts do their job.
I hope this made some since, God bless the aviators!

My Regards To All
Robbie

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Fly Fast Make Noise!

I agree, Robbie. Good points. My point is that not everyone who MIGHT read a post in WIX is of our mindset. We (people who fly and otherwise participate in warbirds and airplanes in general) have long-ago adapted ourselves to the realities of occasionally losing friends and facing our own mortality.

A greiving family member looking for simple answers to their loved one's accident, though, will not be served by descriptive "shop talk" or medical pathology. Lest anyone think this type of visit from family members does not happen much, think again. WIX is a well-known source of warbird information among the general public (and also clueless media types, but that's another story).

Before this thread drifts into another discussion about whether we should ever post accident details or talk about related matters, please note that the whole thing came about because of a specific point that was made about NON-AVIATION-MINDED FAMILY MEMBERS OF THE PILOT reading our posts. That's all.

Thanks for everyone's input. I suspect we're all on about the same page. We just have different ways of dealing with the details.

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Buck Wyndham
Editor, WarbirdAlley.com
Warbird Instructor Pilot

"Just in case any of you reading this forgot...high performance aviation is dangerous. Although much goes into mitigating that risk, mistakes and equipment malfunctions have FATAL results. Everyone who straps on a high performance airplane knows this as part of the assumed going in argument. If they haven't accepted that fact, then they are either ignorant or in denial." (Randy Haskin)

Randy, you are absolutely correct. I can go back to the 1973 Indy 500. We lost drivers and mechanics that race day. I will always remember a friend, Swede Savage in a mangled ball of aluminum that once had been a race car, upside down, pushing with all his might to right the burning wad he was in in order to get out. Plenty of historical video to back this up. Yet, did they cancel the Indy 500? No. Was it a disasterous year? Yes. Did they kill a mechanic in the pit lane with a fire truck going the wrong way in the pit lane? Yes. Did we all realize that this danger is inherant in the profession we choose to participate in? Yes.

Look, if you are involved in either of these professions, you understand the risks and accept them. If you are on the outside with an opinion, fine but understand that we on the inside, live by a different model. We acknowledge the risk, face it and live an die by the fate associated with it. Be kind and compassionate in your editorials for it is you on the outside that are trying to deal with what we have already accepted.

Don't mean to be a dilwad but this is getting pi$$y. You either understand or you don't.

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"There are old pilots and bold pilots but few old, bold pilots."

Any aviation is dangerous. We lose friends and family members all the time here on the WIX. We grieve, we argue we laugh.

I would say that if you have pictures of something like that and you know it would be sensative to others, then don't mention it to anyone. Just keep them to yourself and if asked then it is up to you to share.

I hate to see people argue on here in a time of pain for us all during this loss.

I say, can we get a moment of silence for those lost and those in pain.

Amen.

Thank you.

Randy, you and your buddies are also in my thoughts and prayers my friend!