New policy needed on crashes and deaths

[sabredriver]

After this weeks mixed mayhem and sad crashes from USA and UK and so much infightin, bitterness and namecalling, specualtion and everything under the sun, i think Scott/WIX needs to do following -

1) either allow real time reporting of airshows and anything that may invovle crashes or incidents so people can be aware ASAP. Everyone can decide if they wish to read such topics if they dont like it simply dont bloody read it. If information on real time reporting is wrong well let people be corrected. Better to have flowing information then NONE at all right?

(I dont read some topics on the many forums at WIX because they just dont interest me and im sure others are the same as me).

2) if that idea doesnt appeal then this should....

A TOTAL black ban and censor anything about crashes or airshows crashes on the above subject and just let people find about it other ways thru reading the media themselves instead of a forum.

I think it needs to be seriosuly debated especially after Reno 3 major crashes this week and now the UK latest crash and seeing this forum turn to brutal stuff that is forcing a lot to leave nearly, merely over informing people of such events.

If you dont like forums dont come here.

[Eric Rogers]

We don't need a new policy, what we need is some common sense.

I do not post on here very often, (look at the number if you want) but I do check in here at least every day just to see what is going on. I don't read every post that is made, but I do read through the ones that interest me. And while most of the information here is quite educational, unfortunately bad things do happen.

What we should all be sensitive to is, when accidents happen, they happen to real people. We may not know them personally, but they are a part of what interests us. (Warbirds) Many on here simply send their condolences to the friends and family that have lost someone, and some try to explain what happened.

We all crave to know what happened. Nearly everyone I know slows down to look at an accident along side the road. Unfortunately the News in general usually does not report such things in a positive manner.

We can do better than that. We are not the evening news. Simply reporting that something bad happened is informational, leave it there, when the facts come out after the investigation then we can all read what really happened. NTSB Preliminary reports usually within a couple of weeks, with final reports coming later. Let the facts speak for themselves.

The accident at Oshkosh on July 27, and at Dayton the next day are examples of this, as at least the facts of the accident are established. Go see for yourself if you want to know what, where, and eventually how.

[daveymac82c]

As a warbird fan it is important to me to hear about everything that's going on in the warbird world. It is extremely saddening when accidents happen, but that's part of the warbird world we live in.

I think posting reports of accidents is fine. Generally when accidents have been posted on here in the past the reports start off vague and I take most of it as a grain of salt because most of the early info comes from the media whom can't be trusted.... much.

Quite often, what might be viewed as an opinion on how an accident occurred is simply a regurgitation of what someone else said and they are only passing it along to possibly fill in holes.

I think most people on here are being decent by not disclosing names with respect to the families and that should certainly continue.

As a final note, maybe to avoid having people yell at you, put disclaimers in your posts saying "I got this information from _____ news source," or "Someone told me this, but who knows yet, right?"

That's it for me.

-David

[Jeff Funk]

This very emotional subject has been discussed at length in the past. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to quickly find the particular thread.
I thnk most people want to hear facts as they become known, but
there some "hot buttons" that legitimately cause bad feelings:

1) As mentioned in this thread already, posting speculation or hearsay about the cause (even from the media) There are several reasons this causes problems. First of all, the reputations of the people involved may be impuned unfairly. As many of the accident victims and participants may be family or friends of WIXers, idle gossip that tarnishes reputations is particularly offensive. In addition, many WIXers are concerned that undue bad publicity gives ammunition to organizations that want to ground all warbirds and let them collect dust in museums. Of course, any wreck is bad, but speculation that the pilots involved might have been reckless makes the situation worse.

2) Posts that start inquiring about the possibility about repairs of the aircraft a few hours or days after the loss of life are often offensive.
Quite a few WIXers have lost someone close in an accident. I believe the focus of sentiments should be the victim and family.

3) Titles of posts about crashes should give an indicatiion of the time.
Titles like "P-51 Crash" immediately cause concern among WIXers about friends and that isn't necessary when the crash occurred in 1945.

Just some of my thoughts based on past controversies concerning crash reports.

In the last year or so, adhering to this discipline has lead to WIX posts that eventually gave the true facts about an incident that hopefully let others learn.

[lmritger]

Good points Jeff, and there's one other that didn't get mentioned... idle chatter on the board about such a crash, no matter how well intentioned, can be picked up by news organizations looking for a sensationalist 'scoop' and spread around as gospel when nothing could be further from the truth. Sure, when things get sorted out a few weeks down the road, the newsies will post a retraction on page C20 of their local rag, but the damage has already been done... remember, despite our often harsh disagreements, we're all essentially on the same team here. News organizations (I refuse to call them "journalists" any longer) have no compunctions about screwing anyone and everyone in their mad rush to be first with whatever will sell the most papers or online page views... "it bleeds, it leads" has never been more true than today.

It's understandable that we want to know what happened at Shoreham, but please guys (and gals)... let's not give the media any more fodder for their articles.

Respectfully,

Lynn Ritger

[Broken-Wrench]

[quote="sabredriver"]After this weeks mixed mayhem and sad crashes from USA and UK -

Maybe we could be like Australia which makes it so hard for John Q public to enjoy aviation that there isn't hardly any general aviation so that crashes are rare.

[Boneyard]

(I dont read some topics on the many forums at WIX because they just dont interest me and im sure others are the same as me).

What's needed on here is a filter which can be used to filter out postings made by certain people.

[GARY HILTON]

Flying ain't for sissies....I guess we need the skull and cross-bones on all aircraft and web posts..Gary

Placing a date in the title for downed planes would be nice.

Steve

[gregv]

Placing a date in the title for downed planes would be nice.

Steve

Yup, I agree. As well, perhaps a new forum called "incidents" would be viable, if there was enough interest, or if the topic was deemed worthy of its own area?

Personally, as long as there is a date in the topic field, its OK by me; if I don't want to read it I don't.

cheers

gv

[Nathan]

Hello

I got insulted by pm for posting about the L-39 crash. Instead of insults wouldn't it just be better to say, "thanks for the news, very sad" and be done with it? Instead it seems everytime someone posts on a crash it ends up heated.

WIX is a place for news and we should be able to post what we hear about.

Cheers,
Nathan

P.S. trying hard.

[Karpis]

Personally, the only thing that bugs me about the reporting of crashes and other incidents is the fact that too often someone will post at the first word of such an incident. If they are truly trying to get info across, that's great. But if they are just trying to be the one to beat the others to the punch, that's just sad.

[Paul Krumrei]

Hello

I got insulted by pm for posting about the L-39 crash. Instead of insults wouldn't it just be better to say, "thanks for the news, very sad" and be done with it? Instead it seems everytime someone posts on a crash it ends up heated.

WIX is a place for news and we should be able to post what we hear about.

Cheers,
Nathan

P.S. trying hard.

This is my thoughts.

We probably are not the first people to post about a crash and therfor it would be second hand information.

Posting about a crash is nothing more then passing along information that is already available to the public, so if your going to PM someone about posting here, stop and think again about what your really doing, because it is NOT that persons fault the crash happened and 2nd, the news is already sent it to the world, so lighten up a bit.

Now, if you post something like the person whom may have crashed, bloodied and in a terrible gross manner, then you shoudl be bitchslapped and told not to do that again.

BUT, if you post text information pertaining to the crash, then POST ON, lets share the information, because not everyone is on top of CNN 24/7.

Another thing is is alright in my books to post the information, but not really ok, if you start to 1. Place blame on equipment or the pilot without that knowledge or 2. Speculating on the crash due to someones personal feelings on the pilots knowledge or skill set.

Crashes happen. Stop bitching at people on here because they passed the information on or guess what DONT READ THE FREAKIN' POST!

I feel like I am having to grab my kids hands and telling them to stop fighting and start playing nice everytime I see a post like this. Come on, I am an adult, I think we can all be one too. Can't we all just get along?

[Randy Haskin]

No 'policy' is needed here. We are adults, and this is a place to EXCHANGE INFORMATION.

There are endless examples of what has happened to forums where moderators have all but choked out any ability for free discussion. It's not a pretty sight.

The beauty of the internet is that it IS free discussion...information flow.

Keep things just the way they are...if you treat WIXers like adults, then they'll act like it.

[lmritger]

And Randy, I would add that if the free and open exchange of information is so offensive to some people, perhaps WIX is not the best site for them to be perusing on a regular basis. After all, it is the Warbird Information Exchange.

Lynn