Cause of CAF C-45 accident

[skymstr02]

A puddle of Prestone would also be evident on the water cooled variety, if that be the case.

[Chad Veich]

The NTSB report doesn't say anything on the matter...

Read it again, my quote came directly out of the NTSB report linked to in Bluedharma's post. I have no idea how accurate the information may or may not be but the statement is in the report none the less.

[CAPFlyer]

Read it again, my quote came directly out of the NTSB report linked to in Bluedharma's post. I have no idea how accurate the information may or may not be but the statement is in the report none the less.

Respectfully, it is you that needs to re-read my question. I did not ask IF they were installed, but WHEN and BY WHOM were they installed. There is no indication in the NTSB report on that matter.

[Bluedharma]

Sorry guys.
Is this a annual process? Or is the valve opened up to the collection vessel after each flight? Is that what these blue containers are for?
Would the oil leak be that visible on a walk-around prior to flight?

Bluedharma


pictures taken on 06-24-2006

[Chad Veich]

Respectfully, it is you that needs to re-read my question. I did not ask IF they were installed, but WHEN and BY WHOM were they installed. There is no indication in the NTSB report on that matter.

No disrespect intended with my post either CAPFlyer, just wanted to make sure we were all on the same page.

[CAPFlyer]

Okay. I've just not heard when the modification was made, so I'm kinda interested in knowing if it was something that the CAF took on "in good faith" from the previous owner or if it was an unfortunate mistake made by a well-meaning member of the Wing.

BD - the valve is opened after every flight to ensure that all oil from the lower cylinder is drained to prevent a hydraulic lock in the engine. The blue containers are for collecting the oil drained from the valve to prevent the oil from making a mess on the ground. Once the valve is closed, the hose is removed and the oil can be re-added to the oil tank if desired. An oil leak should be visible after the hose is removed, but I'm not sure that there would be much oil until after the engines were started. The report doesn't say if there was anyone present for the engine start or not, so it is possible that no one saw the oil draining out after engine start or the puddle that resulted since the report seems to indicate that the mechanic on the aircraft was either in the hangar or not at the airport at the time of the aircraft's departure.

[Bill Greenwood]

You can see they went to lengths to take care of the plane. I am not real expert on that system, but you can see an opportunity for a mistake. The person that removes the tube and oil can should close the drain. Perhaps he did or tried to, but did not get it firmly closed. Maybe such a system should have a red warning visible whenever it is open. It would be good to have a second pair of eyes, the mech or pilot or co pilot to do a final check. If one person, say the mech came and removed the bucket, but did not remember to come back and close the valve the next person might have missed it. I'll bet it is not on the preflight check list. I try to do the preflight myself rather than having someone help me. Only if I have someone knowlegeble, do I ask them to do one part of it such as fueling or cleaning the windscreen. Larger planes often have multi crews and something can get overlooked.

Last edited by Bill Greenwood on Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Matt Gunsch]

I used to sell a oil drain valve that was devoloped by Carl Schmieder. It was a push to open valve, inside a threaded fitting. when the 2 halves were screwed together it would open the valve and drain the sump. Carl had a valve fall out once in flight. the only problem was when he shut down, the oil drained out. On the R-1340, the scavage pump keeps the sumps dry in flight.

[bsb]

For what it is worth, here is the pilot's description of the incident:

While doing some single engine training in the vicinity of Parkland Airport, training turned to real life emergencies.

After completing a shutdown and relight of the right engine, the left engine began running terribly tough, which required its shutdown and feathering of the propeller. After a brief period, the right engine began to lose power, and we were no longer able to maintain altitude. We restarted the left engine in an attempt to regain some positive thrust, but that only increased the drag. Our training started at approximately 1000’ absolute, so this didn’t leave us much time for trouble-shooting. Thinking that our problem could be contaminated fuel, I discontinued cross-feeding and selected both main tanks. We continued to lose power, and this engine was smoothly dying. Boost pumps, mags, all further trouble shooting failed, and it was time to seek a landing zone.

We couldn’t reach Parkland because of our steep glide angle, and our only hope was to aim for a landing on Niwot road or an adjoining field, but the drag from the left engine, which failed to feather on its second shut-down, and the continued loss of thrust on the right engine caused our glide path to get ever steeper. With no alternative left, I selected a path through the tops of a stand of trees and between a couple of houses. We extended the gear just prior to landing, but visibility was impossible due to flying glass from our contact with the trees. Fortunately, we remained conscious and didn’t get trapped in the wreckage, because a fire broke out, which would have made our rescue impossible.

Although the NTSB is continuing to determine the causeof the accident, evidence points toward oil starvation of both engines. As with a personal injury or illness much is learned after the occurrence. In this accident, as in almost all accidents, a chain of events occurred, a chain in which if any one of the links had broken, the accident would not have happened.

This time the aircraft was covered by insurance, just how much, how it will be distributed, or even if the insurance company will pay for damages at all is not known. The aircraft is owned by the CAF, of course, and a final decision as to distribution of funds or possible replacement aircraft is up to the General Staff. In the past, it has taken the Staff as long as two years or more to resolve these questions. So aircraft-wise, this leaves the Mile High Wing in a state of limbo short of adopting the Fly Baby as its mascot.

Found at: http://www.contrails.us/~milehighwing/Newsletter/2007/08-07Newsletter/MHV-07Aug-clr.pdf

[Bluedharma]

The real "worth" is that the 2 guys are ok. Insurance will take care of the rest.
Thanks for the first person point of view. Very interesting bsb!
Regards,
Bluedharma

[ZRX61]

90 minute pre-flight????????