Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:41 pm
Some of the 'less unlikely' types I've reviewed included the Hawker Hurricane when first fitted with the 40mm tank busting cannon; the 'Testse' Mosquito with the Molins cannon; a Westland Lysander with a 20mm cannon pair, a Supermarine Walrus with a cannon fitted in the nose, and the use of the Coventry Ordinance Works (COW) cannon in various interwar RAF flying boats etc. In many cases these aircraft were very happy travelling at well below 100mph.
Steve - the 'you guys' you so vaguely sneer at includes an awful lot of pilots, authors, historians and aero engineers who have believed or perpetrated this myth, including people who flew some of the mentioned types. The best of us do that at times. Careful you don't get pulled off your high horse!
Steve - the 'you guys' you so vaguely sneer at includes an awful lot of pilots, authors, historians and aero engineers who have believed or perpetrated this myth, including people who flew some of the mentioned types. The best of us do that at times. Careful you don't get pulled off your high horse!
Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:48 pm
James,
I'm not 'vaguely sneering' at anybody. I merely pointed out how ridiculous this 'myth'(your word) is. Sounds to me that we agree. We must both be on a high horse.
Steve G
I'm not 'vaguely sneering' at anybody. I merely pointed out how ridiculous this 'myth'(your word) is. Sounds to me that we agree. We must both be on a high horse.
Steve G
Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:54 pm
bipe215 wrote:I'm not 'vaguely sneering' at anybody. I merely pointed out how ridiculous this 'myth'(your word) is. Sounds to me that we agree. We must both be on a high horse.
Hey, please chill, it was just a leg pull, as I was taking your remark to be. These things don't always read as intended; sorry.
Anyway, we could be both on the high-horse and facing in different directions!
As you've said, the physics doesn't support it, but I'm always curious to find origins of these 'aero-myths' and sometimes I do find evidence not just a myth - so I keep an open mind.
After all, in the Nineteenth century, a respected scientist 'proved' that if you travelled at a scary 20mph in a tunnel on a train, everyone would die by being unable to breathe. Uh oh.
Regards,
Thu Oct 11, 2007 10:11 pm
I have heard that before firing the cannon on the A-10 the pilot programs the computer for how long it should fire. I have also heard that if fired without this precise control, it would melt all the barrels. A human being couldn't possibly pull and release the trigger fast enough to fire it without a computer.
I don't know for sure if thats true, but it sounds like it might be.
I don't know for sure if thats true, but it sounds like it might be.
Fri Oct 12, 2007 6:16 am
Welcome aboard David...pretty cool Pops ya got there
Anyone ever hear of a group called the Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Ownership? Just the name of that group makes me wonder why we don't have a national group like that? I know that I am gonna get the dander riled up on the NRA fellas, but I think the NRA is way too liberal in their line of thinking that ANYONE should be able to own a gun of any kind. A little too liberal for me!
I personally own a handgun and think along the same lines as you David in that I like target shooting in a controlled, safe environment. I also keep my little friend with me most times...just in case
Having said that, if your Pops gives you the Spit and you are able to get it fully armed, can I give you the current address of my ex...just in case you might need a little target pratice
Anyone ever hear of a group called the Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Ownership? Just the name of that group makes me wonder why we don't have a national group like that? I know that I am gonna get the dander riled up on the NRA fellas, but I think the NRA is way too liberal in their line of thinking that ANYONE should be able to own a gun of any kind. A little too liberal for me!
I personally own a handgun and think along the same lines as you David in that I like target shooting in a controlled, safe environment. I also keep my little friend with me most times...just in case
Having said that, if your Pops gives you the Spit and you are able to get it fully armed, can I give you the current address of my ex...just in case you might need a little target pratice
Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:48 am
I'm being pushed dangerously close to a lengthy "PRO" gun ownership rant here. I'm gonna' refrain 'cause it would be TOTALLY off topic.
Mudge the owner
Mudge the owner
Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:20 am
Right with ya, Mudge
off topic
Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:21 am
Mudge, David doesn't need any encouragement on guns; he needs to hear the value of College. And the reason he doesn't have anymore money is because he spent it all on skis, but that is another story.
Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:25 am
I agree with you on the college theme, Bill, I've got one of those here at my house, too. After they get the college part over with they'll have plenty of time to fill the gun cabinet and ski racks.
Fri Oct 12, 2007 2:48 pm
It's time for high school physics! If only I had paid attention... Please check my math, I've been wrong before.
105mm Howitzer: 472m/s muzzle velocity @ 14.97kg High Explosive projectile weight http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M101_howitzer
105mm: Kinetic Energy = 1/2 mass * velocity [squared] = 1/2 * 14.97 * 472 [squared] = 1,667,538 joules
B-25: Cruise speed 370 km/h (370km/h * h/3600s * 1000m/km = 103m/s) @ Loaded weight 15,200 kg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B-25_Mitchell
B-25: Kinetic Energy = 1/2 mass * velocity [squared] = 1/2 * 15200 * 103 [squared] = 80,628,400 joules
So, the B-25 has about 48 times the kinetic energy of a 105mm HE round. If the kinetic energy of the two were equal, the B-25 should stop in mid-air.
Of course even if the B-25 could stop in mid-air without being crushed like a steamroller running over a beer can, what B-25 can fly off into the wild blue from zero airspeed without a significant loss in altitude to regain flying speed?
105mm Howitzer: 472m/s muzzle velocity @ 14.97kg High Explosive projectile weight http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M101_howitzer
105mm: Kinetic Energy = 1/2 mass * velocity [squared] = 1/2 * 14.97 * 472 [squared] = 1,667,538 joules
B-25: Cruise speed 370 km/h (370km/h * h/3600s * 1000m/km = 103m/s) @ Loaded weight 15,200 kg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B-25_Mitchell
B-25: Kinetic Energy = 1/2 mass * velocity [squared] = 1/2 * 15200 * 103 [squared] = 80,628,400 joules
So, the B-25 has about 48 times the kinetic energy of a 105mm HE round. If the kinetic energy of the two were equal, the B-25 should stop in mid-air.
Of course even if the B-25 could stop in mid-air without being crushed like a steamroller running over a beer can, what B-25 can fly off into the wild blue from zero airspeed without a significant loss in altitude to regain flying speed?
Last edited by bdk on Fri Oct 12, 2007 6:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:23 pm
BDK
You said the same thing I did but your post is far more impressive.
As a side note, if you had a B-25 suspended somehow in mid air with zero airspeed and dropped it, I wonder what the altitude loss would be to level flight. I would guess at least 3500 to 4000 feet.
Steve G
You said the same thing I did but your post is far more impressive.
As a side note, if you had a B-25 suspended somehow in mid air with zero airspeed and dropped it, I wonder what the altitude loss would be to level flight. I would guess at least 3500 to 4000 feet.
Steve G
Re: off topic
Sat Oct 13, 2007 8:41 am
Bill Greenwood wrote:Mudge, David doesn't need any encouragement on guns; he needs to hear the value of College. And the reason he doesn't have anymore money is because he spent it all on skis, but that is another story.
Bill,
Spent it all on skis? Sounds like he has good judgement beyond his years!