WARBIRD ACCIDENT REVIEW

[Bill Greenwood]

Eric, you have said exactly what I meant to say before I got side tracked; that most real safety has to come from within the pilot, that if we really care we do a debriefing in our mind after a flight and to learn from it, (and its not how to out talk a used car salesman on the radio). If I do a roll and it is safe, but not great, I try to correct it next time, perhaps better trim before entry. But if I do something dumb or dangerous especially with a passenger it would be VITAL to have a inner talk and NOT do it again. Having some controller that is not even a pilot, or a jet guy tell me how to fly a Spitfire is a lot less effective. The dumbest thing I did in awhile was not buying stronger tie down ropes for my Cub. I was busy, who expected 90mph winds in Jan., enough to break the ropes the FBO furnished. Nobody hurt, but I stilll have a hard time looking at the plane now.

Last edited by Bill Greenwood on Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

[Bill Greenwood]

Eric, as for a flying with different types; If YOU feel it is unsafe don't do it. The reality is all those Air Force rules are fine for them in their very controlled environment with lots of taxpayer furnished same types to fly with. But you know when we are at Osh it is unlikely that there will be another Spit or Skyraider. Most of our flights are in trail anyway. A few years ago I had to fly behind a Skyraider, and the wake turbulence was awful, I didn't want to do it again. When I was first invited to Thunder it was to be Spits and Hurricanes. Later when I found out that it was also Skyraiders, I phoned them and was promised that we would be on separate flights. That Sat am briefing they tell me they want you and I to fly together. This really leaves me exposed, not only do I not want to do it in my plane, but I am in a $1.5 million fighter that someone has trusted me with, and which I have two hours and two landings experience in. So I just said no, and it was as uncomfortable for me as it was for you. I am sure you would like to have a better chance to display your plane. Believe me, I know the feeling, in 23 years at Osh, I have never led a flight (once at Sun N Fun), done a solo or even a roll in the show. Mostly I just dodge propwash, but what really matters in the long run is safety. And as for your plane, no joke, seriously, if the flight as briefed does not fit what you want to so do safely, decline to do it. It make a great static display and I am not joking or being sarcastic about that, it is a hit with all it ironmongery. Its got to be the favorite of the NRA, and now I am joking.

[T33driver]

Eric, as for a flying with different types; If YOU feel it is unsafe don't do it. The reality is all those Air Force rules are fine for them in their very controlled environment with lots of taxpayer furnished same types to fly with. But you know when we are at Osh it is unlikely that there will be another Spit or Skyraider. Most of our flights are in trail anyway. A few years ago I had to fly behind a Skyraider, and the wake turbulence was awful, I didn't want to do it again. When I was first invited to Thunder it was to be Spits and Hurricanes. Later when I found out that it was also Skyraiders, I phoned them and was promised that we would be on separate flights. That Sat am briefing they tell me they want you and I to fly together. This really leaves me exposed, not only do I not want to do it in my plane, but I am in a $1.5 million fighter that someone has trusted me with, and which I have two hours and two landings experience in. So I just said no, and it was as uncomfortable for me as it was for you. I am sure you would like to have a better chance to display your plane. Believe me, I know the feeling, in 23 years at Osh, I have never led a flight (once at Sun N Fun), done a solo or even a roll in the show. Mostly I just dodge propwash, but what really matters in the long run is safety. And as for your plane, no joke, seriously, if the flight as briefed does not fit what you want to so do safely, decline to do it. It make a great static display and I am not joking or being sarcastic about that, it is a hit with all it ironmongery. Its got to be the favorite of the NRA, and now I am joking.

Bill,

Your personal stories show you have a keen awareness for safety and when to stand down when the risk is unacceptable. Sadly the warbird accident statistics tell us something's lacking in the warbird community as a whole. I realize it's not realistic nor necessary to conduct flight ops in every way like the USAF, but I'd prefer we had a safety record closer to their's. I'm convinced if the warbird community at large adopted something akin to the USAF's risk managment and safety culture we'd have fewer accidents. While I agree postflight self-critique is useful, I don't see all the shortfalls in my performance and there's nothing like the brutal honesty and learning that results from a thorough, honest debriefing and feedback from others that saw all my mistakes in the air. I agree airshows often don't lend themselves to debriefings--lots of pilots don't see the need nor care. But before you can fix a problem, you have to acknowledge there is one in the first place. Doug's identified it and started the conversation and I hope it continues.

[EDowning]

I am glad to see all of the posts in this thread, I agree with several previous statements that this should be a permanent stand alone topic.

[Randy Haskin]

But before you can fix a problem, you have to acknowledge there is one in the first place. Doug's identified it and started the conversation and I hope it continues.

So, we end up right where we started...Doug's talking (others are, too), but is anyone LISTENING?

[DougR]

All

First of all, thanks to all for the kind words, but let me be clear, the reason why my presentations have resonated at NWOC and other venues is because I recognize that I am part of the problem. When I talk about the stupid things that warbird pilots do, most of the time it is first person.

We have the $hit hot fighter pilot culture in the Warbird community without the oversight of a commanding officer. Fixing the culture in our industry is a long slow process.

In the mean time, we have we have to focus on currency and education. There really are people in our business who do not understand the basics of flying high performance airplanes close to the ground. Recently, I asked a warbird pilot what the 4g stall speed of his airplane was and he had no idea. (the accelerated stall speed is the 1g stall speed x the square root of the load factor. 4g stall = 2x the 1 g stall speed.)

Currency is a tough issue. It is a tough one for me personally. I fly over 300 hrs per year, and lots of warbird/airshow time, but it is in several types and in some cases several different airplanes within the type. Each one is much different than the others in their fleets and it is a challenge to stay sharp in every type and N-number.

We also need to focus on maintenance. The overall quality of the fleet has improved dramatically in the 20+ years that I have been flying warbirds, but there are still some airplanes out there that need some TLC.

I will go anywhere that a room full of warbird pilots will listen. The problem is most of the people who come and listen to the speech are not the problem children.

At the end of the day, the only pilot each of us has any control over is the one in the mirror. If we can make that pilot safer, the industry will be safer. Darwin does a pretty good job with the other ones.

Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal

PS Randy, Do they dring beer in England?????

[Randy Haskin]

PS Randy, Do they dring beer in England?????

I am constantly reminded by the locals that my "American" concept of beer is woefully inadequate and that I need some re-education. I am happily complying, despite what you may think.

Now Scotch is another topic entirely!

Doug, you're welcome to come over here and check it out for yourself...perhaps for Flying Legends this next year?