Decathalon----Spins

[O.P.]

I just spent the afternoon doing spin training in a Super Decathalon. That was AWESOME!!! I gotta have one of those. I'll add it to the list right after the F6F and SC-2. 41.4 hrs, 458.6 hrs until the first Type Rating.

[bdk]

I just spent the afternoon doing spin training in a Super Decathalon. That was AWESOME!!!

Excellent first step!

Now the next step:

Spin recovery will be of little value in the pattern, especially in a high performance airplane. The next step is to practice recovering from an incipient spin, i.e. preventing a spin.

I recommend that you read and practice the following- it may save your life someday!

http://home.earthlink.net/~mattalex123/classes/tailwheelendorsement.htm

Let’s now visit the rudder. Most people transitioning to tailwheel airplanes use the rudder improperly. The rudder is what will keep the airplane going straight down the runway. The rudder input is always 2 parts: applied as required then quickly back to neutral. Quick rudder inputs are to be used. Remember that Dutch rolls (as described earlier) and rudder stalls are good rudder exercises. The rudder stall in particular demands quick feet. The rudder stall is a stall. Begin with lot’s of altitude. The instructor controls the elevator and throttle. Instruct the student to keep the ailerons neutral. The instructor will stall the airplane and maintain that stall by holding adequate back elevator pressure. Begin the exercise with idle power. The student is now asked to keep the wings level with the rudder. Again, the rudder inputs are always 2 parts: applied as required to “lift” the down wing then quickly back to neutral. The airplane may roll violently, and if yaw couples with roll, may spin. If the student is aggressive with the rudder inputs, he will prevent the spin by minimizing the yaw. Adding power above idle will greatly increase the roll instability. The student learns how to use the rudder properly. As I coach students doing these exercises, I’ve seen a common faults. First they do not use the rudder. Then when they realize the importance of the rudder they make big, slow rudder inputs, without getting back to the neutral position quickly. As a result, the airplane initially does not respond, then quickly over-responds past the pilot’s expectations. In a word, over control the airplane. It’s like a wave whose magnitude gets bigger and finally beyond most pilot’s ability to control. The rudder inputs need to be small and quick. If the airplane’s nose moves left, several quick taps on the right rudder will correct the problem. Don’t stop moving your feet. Keep dancing on those rudder pedals.[url][/url]

[O.P.]

That's exactly what I did. The first three times I was slow on the rudder, or didn't use enough, and went for the ailerons, hehehe, DON'T use the ailerons. Instaspin. We stalled the plane in about every configuration I could think of. I went out wanting to learn some hardcore spin control and recovery, my flying club doesn't allow spins in their aircraft, I got a whole lot more than that. Besides having a blast, I learned some very important stuff, I kinda got the willies knowing some of the stuff I'd done before in the 172. The thing that sticks in my mind the most is,,,,,

1. A 30 degree turn brings the stall speed up 14 percent. A 60 degree turn, 40 percent . If the stall speed on the ole 172 is 45kts, you're doing 65-68kts, and you make a large bank to keep from overshooting a turn to final......brrrrrrrr, I'm surprised I haven't ended up in the duckpond.

2. STAY COORDINATED! A stall during a coordinated slow speed turn will fall out on the planes vertical axis, out the bottom of the plane, recover the stall and fly out. It's better to explain why you flew over the other runway, then planting yourself on it. A stall during an uncoordinated slow speed skidding turn will tip the wing. On 600 ft turn to final, you probably have 3 seconds to get right with Jesus, and the rest of the afternoon until you're on the evening news.

3. Be aggressive and quick with the rudder. Get it in there fast, get it out FAST!

I'm just a student, so if I'm bum doping everyone, please correct me. This training has made me a 100 percent better and safer pilot. I highly recommend it to everyone. I'm definately doing this again, soon.

[Lynn Allen]

When you fly a tailwheel A/C, you are flying the best. Try to find a
C-150/152 and spin it with just a touch of power and hold on........

[Joe Scheil]

OP,

Where are you doing spin training in SoCal?

[O.P.]

(Lynn) I'll have to try that someday. The instructor said the 172 was pretty docile and would come out of a spin by itself a lot of times (I guess if you have the altitude). What happens in a power on stall to spin in a 150? Tight and fast?

(Joe) I'm in Norcal. I went to Attitude over at Livermore and flew with Rich Perkins. Excellent teacher. Retired Air Force. He taught me spin recovery, more importantly, he taught me stall awareness. You're not going to spin if you don't stall first.

Man.....I love that Decathalon. I think thats going to become my time builder to 500.

[Lynn Allen]

(Lynn) I'll have to try that someday. The instructor said the 172 was pretty docile and would come out of a spin by itself a lot of times (I guess if you have the altitude). What happens in a power on stall to spin in a 150?

(Joe) I'm in Norcal. I went to Attitude over at Livermore and flew with Rich Perkins. Excellent teacher. Retired Air Force. He taught me spin recovery, more importantly, he taught me stall awareness. You're not going to spin if you don't stall first.

Man.....I love that Decathalon. I think thats going to become my time builder to 500.

OP,

All Cessna will fix themselves with hands off the controls, the C-150 will spin quicker with power added. Most all A/C do spin faster with the power. Try your Decathalon with the power added. I started a spin in a 8KCAB and hit the gas by mistake............

As far as a time builder, a tailwheeler will teach you more over the same time, as I used a J-3 every morning for about 3 months, The Dawn Patrol!

Cheers,

Lynn

[O.P.]

The last thing we did.....The instructor said to hold the controls and he would tell me when to take them. He put it in a spin and left it for a few seconds and then told me to take it. It was tight and fast. The controls were locked all of the way to the left. It took some actual effort both on the rudder and the ailerons to get it undone. I was watching the altimeter on the way down, that was a fast 2500 feet. I want to say that was 'Power On", but I was so excited/into it, I forgot.

You must be rich . Flying everyday, and a Cub. I'm envious.

[bdk]

I'm in Norcal. I went to Attitude over at Livermore and flew with Rich Perkins. Excellent teacher. Retired Air Force. He taught me spin recovery, more importantly, he taught me stall awareness. You're not going to spin if you don't stall first.

Was Rich in Florida when he was in the Air Force? Was he working on an L-5 project? I think I traded him a NOS 8.00SC tailwheel tire for an oxygen mask years ago...

Could be another Rich Perkins though.

Good job with the flight training. In my opinion, you are far better off getting aerobatic or safety training than just droning around for $100 burgers.

Brandon

[O.P.]

He was a C-130 pilot. I'll ask him when I go back over.

[Lynn Allen]

The last thing we did.....The instructor said to hold the controls and he would tell me when to take them. He put it in a spin and left it for a few seconds and then told me to take it. It was tight and fast. The controls were locked all of the way to the left. It took some actual effort both on the rudder and the ailerons to get it undone. I was watching the altimeter on the way down, that was a fast 2500 feet. I want to say that was 'Power On", but I was so excited/into it, I forgot.

You must be rich . Flying everyday, and a Cub. I'm envious.

You must be rich : No, still working on that

Flying everyday : Still working on that also!

and a Cub................Oh Yeah..............

I recommend that you read and practice the following- it may save your life someday!

http://home.earthlink.net/~mattalex123/classes/tailwheelendorsement.htm

Excellent article, well written and very constructive. The only point I would make is the last sentence indicates deciding whether to make a wheel landing or a full stall landing should be left for the last minute, based on float. I have found that you should always decide before hand exactly what type of landing you are going to make, and stick with your plan. If things are not right GO AROUND. Better to make another circuit than to be fumbling with indecision at a very critical moment of flight.

Just my two cents worth.

Steve Patterson

[Lynn Allen]

I recommend that you read and practice the following- it may save your life someday!

http://home.earthlink.net/~mattalex123/classes/tailwheelendorsement.htm

Excellent article, well written and very constructive. The only point I would make is the last sentence indicates deciding whether to make a wheel landing or a full stall landing should be left for the last minute, based on float. I have found that you should always decide before hand exactly what type of landing you are going to make, and stick with your plan. If things are not right GO AROUND. Better to make another circuit than to be fumbling with indecision at a very critical moment of flight.

Just my two cents worth.

Steve Patterson

Well said Steve, if you don't like what you see, go around and try again!