LOA's

[Randy Haskin]

BTW, our instructor was a former Eagle Driver and 1000 hour T-38 instructor, so L-39 school looked a lot like UPT.

Are you referring to Duke out in New Mexico at the Jet Warbird Training Center?

[jcw]

srpatterson
JD martin is out and mary pat baxter is now in... i sent my unlimited in to them in jun and still do not have the etr's back. the answer is they are behind and working on them... but still under the old system if you had an unlimited LOA with a cockpit check out you could jump into anything (almost) and go fly... now you need a check for each one... and how many times are we going to have to do a check in a T-6 for every one of the new single seaters we want to fly??? doesn't seam to make sense to me...

take care

jcw

[wendovertom]

Randy - NO NO NO - Not my intent to dish crap your way at all - I'd give my pinky finger to be able to fly a F-15E - (I'm insulin dependant diabetic which got me a "too dang bad" grin from an Air Force Officer). And absolute truth be told, I'd really have liked a shot in the seat of a U-2. My avatar is a 65K+ altitude self portrait of a U-2 pilot.

I just wanted to know whos out there that would be willing to get in the Hun should the opportunity become reality (don't hold your breath).

I'd definately classify a front line jet as a warbird.

"today was tomorrow yesterday"

Tom P

[srpatterson]

OK, let's see here...

Randy, I did my L-39 training with Puck in Rockford. He is also our IP for Hopper Flight, a 5 ship formation team.

JCW, sorry you're having trouble, but the unlimited rules are one of the main changes with the new system. As I understand it only a few people are being given the "Unlimited" all makes and models piston rating (Steve Hinton comes to mind). The people I know who had Unlimited LOAs (like Dave Clinton, WOA Director) had to submit their logbooks to show all the makes they had flown.

Also, I think it's a good idea to get away from the "Unlimited" catagory. Too many people were running to get 3 piston LOAs so they could get an Unlimited. And no, I don't think you are going to have to do 10 hours in the back of a T-6 for each warbird you want to fly. However, too many guys in the past have just hopped in a new plane without even the most basic understanding of the systems. Sure, I could jump in a Bearcat tomorrow and have someone show me where the trim, flaps, and gear are...rattle off a few airspeeds...any killer items?...and go fly. But the thought here is to actually go through a ground school as part of the checkout. You might be a 747-400 captain, but you can't fly a Learjet without going to the ground school. Same thing for warbirds. The FAA wants us to slow down and put more emphasis on currency and training, in an attempt to lower the accident rate. I think it's positive.

I didn't think JD Martin had left? There were a bunch of rumors floating around during OSH last year, but they were false. Is he really not there anymore?

Good luck, and I'm sure you will not have any great difficulty flying under the new system. It's not quite as easy as the old one, but I think in the long run it will be better for the warbird community.

Best regards,

Steve

[jcw]

srpatterson
i have 30+ years flying round motors and warbirds (just so you know where i am coming from) as well as 28 years military flying and still at it.... i understand whereyou are coming from with the folks that went out and got the quick LOS's and moved on but some of us take it seriously as we added but regaurdless, what is going to be the approved ground school ???? we already know that crazy horse (last time i checked a while back) was 40K so that covers the P51 so who is going to do the p40,f4f,f6f, and so on... i'm not sure about you but 40K+ for each type is getting steep.. we are going to price entry into this right out the door and at some point our stuff will get real hard to sell because of the problems being able to fly it... just a few thoughts.... and i had to turn in all my log book stuff and am still waiting... this shouldn't affect me but it sure will for the new guys comming up and my thought process on this was to try and get folks into it so we can keep the stuff flying as long as the parts hold out...

take care

jcw

[srpatterson]

I agree with everything you're saying JCW. I know that there have been some delays in Oklahoma City, which is why LOAs are still good until next year (as opposed to expiring last Summer like they were originally supposed to do). Good luck, and I hope you get your paperwork soon.

As for the approved ground schools, well any of the new examiners can submit a training program. The new examiners have all been to FAA training in OK City, so there are more than just a couple of guys out there. I worked with Stew Dawson on the Sea Fury, and I know that he has also developed a program for the T-28, as well as other aircraft in the Lone Star Flight Museum inventory. Have you considered applying to be one of the new examiners?

When I purchased the Sea Fury the most complex tail dragger time I had was in the T-6. If I had not been able to use the 2 place Mk. 20 Sea Fury the insurance company was going to have me go through the Stallion 51 program. Now, there would have been nothing wrong with that, but a Mustang and a Sea Fury are very different (especially in an accelerated stall). Another friend of mine in Chicago has spent over a year developing an approved program for the T-2 Buckeye. Again, he's going through the long process of being "the first".

As time goes on more approved instructors and examiners will come on board, and competition will set some price points. Also, I don't think there will be a need to do 10 hours at Stallion 51 for each type of warbird you fly. I would imagine that your checkout will be a half day or full day of systems work followed by the usual 3 full stop TOs and Landings.

You and I both know experienced warbird pilots who are dead now because of some small mistake they made. Without naming names and accidents I think it does us good to slow down and have another set of eyes look at each of us before climbing into a new type. That doesn't mean you are not more than qualified (I know you are), it's just another smart step in breaking the accident chain.

Thanks again for all your comments. I appreciate it.

Steve