Fri Dec 17, 2004 6:53 am
This thread should be deleted for even accusing people of even doing that. It's not fair to them
Fri Dec 17, 2004 8:14 am
The people restoring Doc may be getting to get the Kee Bird (If what one of the guys told me is correct).
Last edited by Wolverine on Mon Dec 20, 2004 9:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
Fri Dec 17, 2004 8:15 am
Don't forget the Insurance companies, they will be falling over themselves to take those parts ONCE you get them back into the states.
Maybe this is why they still sit up there is the cold and snow.
I have watched the PBS special several times and Can’t picture them setting her on fire.
Maybe this is why they still sit up there is the cold and snow.
I have watched the PBS special several times and Can’t picture them setting her on fire.
Fri Dec 17, 2004 8:50 am
I'm confused. What parts would Keybird have that the "Doc" folks" would go to all the trouble of going up to Greenland. Seems to me that the could get all of the parts INCONUS. The engines if indeed have been sitting underwater for these past years. Would still need to be torn down and rebuilt. Surely they could find good core engines for rebuild in the U.S. Also if it's structural components there are other B-29s around. Off the top of my head, there's China Lake and also the "Lady of the Lake" up in Alaska. From my meager point of view Greenland seems like an awful long distance to go for parts.
But you know what, it could be done. And possibly at a minimum of time useage. First you would have to insert a team (around 20 guys) to the location, via C-130 with all the tools and supplies to break down the components. With the team would be 12 463-L pallets and one 10K AT John Deere Forklift. Take the B-29 assemblies apart and palletize them. And done in a minimum of time. Once everything is palletized them 3 C-130s would land. The 10K AT would load the pallets on to 2 of the Herc's. While the 3rd would would be for ground crew and equipment. Take off and head towards Thule AFB. From that point the logistics could be determined. Peice of cake. "I love it when a plan comes together."
Shay
But you know what, it could be done. And possibly at a minimum of time useage. First you would have to insert a team (around 20 guys) to the location, via C-130 with all the tools and supplies to break down the components. With the team would be 12 463-L pallets and one 10K AT John Deere Forklift. Take the B-29 assemblies apart and palletize them. And done in a minimum of time. Once everything is palletized them 3 C-130s would land. The 10K AT would load the pallets on to 2 of the Herc's. While the 3rd would would be for ground crew and equipment. Take off and head towards Thule AFB. From that point the logistics could be determined. Peice of cake. "I love it when a plan comes together."
Shay
Fri Dec 17, 2004 9:45 am
We want the wings. They are complete. So are the props, engines, vertical stabilizer, and landing gear. Only the fuselage was destroyed.
Fri Dec 17, 2004 9:46 am
If I remember correctly would be getting Larkins to do the recovery--this has also been mentioned in Hunting Warbirds.
Last edited by Wolverine on Sat Sep 10, 2005 7:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Kee Bird
Fri Dec 17, 2004 11:14 am
I would like to add. That running the APU durring taxi operations is S.O.P. The Generators do not produce electricity at idle, thus an alternate source is required to run the hydraulic pump (electricly driven) to supply brake pressure. So they where not operating unsafe with the APU running as long as it was being monitered. I also remember the APU operator was burned trying to put the fire out when it first started. So I would assume it was being monitored.
Fri Dec 17, 2004 11:17 am
Weeks B-29 needs new wings for that to get in the air, right? I heard they had big corrosion problems.
Or at lest a big part of it, besides the huge amount of work and money.
Or at lest a big part of it, besides the huge amount of work and money.
Fri Dec 17, 2004 11:24 am
That's good. The thought of torching a warbird just for insurance money is a horrible one. Good to know that their hearts were in the right place. Are the any good pictures of the aftermath left from the fire? Thanks
Shay
Shay
Fri Dec 17, 2004 12:21 pm
Yeah. The book Hunting Warbirds and the movie B-29:Frozen in Time.
Also I believe pics are on www.airpirates.com
Also I believe pics are on www.airpirates.com
Fri Dec 17, 2004 7:03 pm
When I saw doc in iyokern, CA It had about 20 engine cores around it. I was there picking up a plane for a dealership.
Insurance, lawn chairs, and magnesium fire suppression
Fri Dec 17, 2004 8:51 pm
Before anybody else goes ballistic, go ask your local fire fighter how hard it is to extinguish magnesium. You need an EXTREMELY complex bit of apparatus to do such a thing, and if you have ever touched an old disposable flash bulb when it went off, you will know that even with a momentary flash and glass insulating it, you can still burn your hand on it. Magnesium burns very hot. So they were right to sit there and just watch it burn. Almost like a Viking funeral. Sad, but neat nonetheless.
As for insurance companies, go ask your local insurance broker to write you a policy on an aircraft they can't see, can't be flown until it's fixed, and by the way, it's located outside of the contiguous US. After they take a Maalox even thinking about it, they'll laugh you out of their office. If he was insured, he SPENT lots to insure it. And even if he did, the practice of hanging a gas can over a running APU isn't in any B29 POH's I've seen, and the insurance company would have probably balked at paying out due to negligent operation.
Still, a very hard lesson in warbird recovery. I think they picked the best way to get it out, but their whole operation sounded shoestring and safety precautions were NOT in place. Hope someone recovers the leftovers and puts them on a flying aircraft...
As for insurance companies, go ask your local insurance broker to write you a policy on an aircraft they can't see, can't be flown until it's fixed, and by the way, it's located outside of the contiguous US. After they take a Maalox even thinking about it, they'll laugh you out of their office. If he was insured, he SPENT lots to insure it. And even if he did, the practice of hanging a gas can over a running APU isn't in any B29 POH's I've seen, and the insurance company would have probably balked at paying out due to negligent operation.
Still, a very hard lesson in warbird recovery. I think they picked the best way to get it out, but their whole operation sounded shoestring and safety precautions were NOT in place. Hope someone recovers the leftovers and puts them on a flying aircraft...
Sat Dec 18, 2004 2:30 am
Thought I would take this time to remember the ill-fated Kee Bird and share some photos I came across.
Shay
Shay
Sat Dec 18, 2004 9:16 am
I think another factor left out of all of this and I think I thought it back when I watched the documentary: Fatigue and the cold harsh conditions probably affected the way things were done up there also...It's been shown that being tired can be equivalent to being intoxicated on alcohol.
John
John
Mon Dec 20, 2004 9:39 am
Col.,
The B-29 weeks has for sale is 1.5 mil.
I believe that leaves us with only one alternative. Go to Greenland.
PS-didn't I say that they might be going to Greenland? I don't believe that I said that they actually were going, just that one of the other volunteers told me.
The B-29 weeks has for sale is 1.5 mil.
I believe that leaves us with only one alternative. Go to Greenland.
PS-didn't I say that they might be going to Greenland? I don't believe that I said that they actually were going, just that one of the other volunteers told me.
Last edited by Wolverine on Fri Jan 14, 2005 4:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.