About the Belle....

lestweforget · **Posted:** Sun Jan 13, 2008 6:25 pm

I have a couple of questions about the long term , deep restoration of the iconic Memphis Belle.

1. How much of her is original?

2. Is there any paint on her that dates back to WW2 on has it all been lost? I know that she was on outside display for a while after she returned to the States.

3. Is she being restored to show her as the War Weary bomber she was after 25 missions, or will she be fresh and new looking?

I wish the restoration team all the best on restoring this very special lady.

mustangdriver · **Posted:** Sun Jan 13, 2008 6:50 pm

Well let me try and answer those as best I can. Through out her career the belle's markings varied a little (though not much). Markings will be done to match the Belle as it appeared on it's 23rd -25th missions. This is what the most documentation exists. She is pretty original, and is going to be preserved as much as possible. Corrosion is a problem in the area around the lower rear fuselage, but most of the skin will be saved. Outside, she is pretty much original, inside, there is alot of original, but there is A LOT missing. The instruments and things like that are replacements, but the yokes, and other controls are original. Original paint is long gone. That was done long before Dayton, and for that matter the MBMA. She had been repainted while still in service when she went to a training unit with the code J5. She still had the pin up though. In the late 50's or 60's the pin up was repainted in a very inaccurate manner. She looked nothing like the real girl, not even the same pose. When she s done at the NMUSAF, she will be restored with all of her 25 mission markings on the nose, and will be factory fresh.

RickH · **Posted:** Sun Jan 13, 2008 7:05 pm

Not trying to start anything here, but that strikes me as an oxymoron.

25 missions and factory fresh ? Mixing those two really doesn't represent the Belle very well from either end of the spectrum.

lestweforget · **Posted:** Sun Jan 13, 2008 7:07 pm

Thanks for that. Again my best wishes for this enormous task. She is a very special piece of history.

mustangdriver · **Posted:** Sun Jan 13, 2008 7:13 pm

RickH wrote:

Not trying to start anything here, but that strikes me as an oxymoron.

25 missions and factory fresh ? Mixing those two really doesn't represent the Belle very well from either end of the spectrum.

Well otherwise you are going to have fake weathering, which I am not a fan of on an aircraft this important. The belle is going to be restored to the same general look as Shoo Shoo baby which pretty much set the bar in B-17 restorations.

6trn4brn · **Posted:** Sun Jan 13, 2008 7:16 pm

I'll second that RickH! I wonder if the good general in charge there at the NMUSAF really cares what us mere mortals think though :roll:

The rest of the oxymoron with the NMUSAF is that they want it all black inside the WW2 hangar for the effect, but all of the planes are shiny and factory fresh looking. I heard that they will be getting Flak Bait also from the NASM which does retain it's war-weary paint. One can only cringe thinking that it will have to be shined-up before it will be able to appear at the NMUSAF.

I saw Mr Tallichet's Memphis Belle at the Dayton Airsho this year and like him or not, she looked wonderful! Oil dripping, paint chipped and fading...simply marvelous. I stopped to talk to one of the crewmembers who was selling teeshirts and complimented them on how good she looked. According to the person I talked to, there was no plan at all to shine her up! Sweet!

RickH · **Posted:** Sun Jan 13, 2008 7:21 pm

Why not stabilize her fix what needs to be fixed and spot paint what needs painting. Refit the interior equipment that's missing and make sure the nose art is historically correct. Or has she already been stripped ?

mustangdriver · **Posted:** Sun Jan 13, 2008 7:23 pm

Comparing the Memphis Belle and Flakbait is apples and oranges. Flack bait has it's original wartime paint. If it were to come to the NMUSAF, it would not be shined up, but left in it's condition. Memphis Belle led a rough post war life of being outside. It doesn't make any sense not to make it look like Shoo Shoo Baby as it does not have it's original paint. This is a plane that needs restored as Flak bait needs preserved.

mustangdriver · **Posted:** Sun Jan 13, 2008 7:25 pm

RickH wrote:

Why not stabilize her fix what needs to be fixed and spot paint what needs painting. Refit the interior equipment that's missing and make sure the nose art is historically correct. Or has she already been stripped ?

There was not much as far as interior equipment left inside to preserve. The aircraft paint has been removed as there is no history in it's paint. That paint is long gone and was gone in the 80's. The Belle is bad enough to need a complete restoration.

RickH · **Posted:** Sun Jan 13, 2008 8:21 pm

The interior was refitted with period equipment when she was restored for placement on Mud Island. Outfitting continued after the dedication. What happened to all of her gear ?

APG85 · **Posted:** Sun Jan 13, 2008 8:25 pm

It was my understanding that when the Memphis Belle was "restored" in the 1980's much of the work was substandard. Some was even done by tech school students. The original paint (interior and exterior) was stripped. Much of her original interior equipment was missing (vandals -wire bundles were simply cut off.) No effort was made at an interior restoration other than spraying an improper coating of green paint on everything...everything!
The NMUSAF certainly has it's work cut out for it. A complete re-strip of the entire airframe was a no brainer to start with. This plane requires a ground up restoration.
You can't compare the Belle's condition to Flak Bait which has spent most of it's post military life in protected indoor storage and is in virtually the same condition as when it left the flightline...

mustangdriver · **Posted:** Sun Jan 13, 2008 8:26 pm

She had been vandalized, again, and not all of the equipment was given back to the NMUSAF as it wasn't all our stuff. The MBMA still has stuff for display. There is some stuff that came with the plane, but not a whole interior. The guns were supplied by the NMUSAF and are going to come back to us. Also the plane was not painted correctly either. Colors were close, but not 100% correct. This is not to take anything away from the dedicated people in Memphis who without them the Belle wouldn't be here today.

mustangdriver · **Posted:** Sun Jan 13, 2008 8:27 pm

APG85 wrote:

It was my understanding that when the Memphis Belle was "restored" in the 1980's much of the work was substandard. Some was even done by tech school students. The original paint (interior and exterior) was stripped. Much of her original interior equipment was missing (vandals -wire bundles were simply cut off.) No effort was made at an interior restoration other than spraying an improper coating of green paint on everything...everything!
The NMUSAF certainly has it's work cut out for it. A complete re-strip of the entire airframe was a no brainer to start with. This plane requires a ground up restoration.
You can't compare the Belle's condition to Flak Bait which has spent most of it's post military life in protected indoor storage and is in virtually the same condition as when it left the flightline...

100% correct.

6trn4brn · **Posted:** Mon Jan 14, 2008 5:36 am

mustangdriver...I certainly hope you are speaking on behalf of the general when you say that if Flak Bait comes to NMUSAF it will NOT be shined up! Right off the top of my head, I can't think of many aircraft there that look right, due to their being too shiney!!!

Did I read here correctly that a Hollyweird (Hollywood) set designer was hired to do the awful lighting in the WW2 hangar? If the general can go to that length, why wouldn't he be able to make the Belle look more real by displaying her war-weary with some professional help? I know that I am not the only visitor to the NMUSAF that thinks the majority of aircraft on display just look overdone and too perfect. They are warbirds for pete's sake. To display the Belle all shined up and factory fresh looking seems like a dishonor to all of the maintenance and ground crews that got greasy and grimey working on the old girls back then.

Yes, do whatever is necessary to save her for future generations, but don't do it to the point that the kids of tomorrow just walk past her as she will be just another shiney glamour-puss with no personality!

6trn4brn · **Posted:** Mon Jan 14, 2008 5:37 am

(double post)

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