What The H*ll IS Wrong With People???

[Jack Cook]

For the life of me I can't figure what goes through some people minds. This kinda stuff makes me sick to my stomach.
This morning at work I processed an application for the 'Crime Victims Assistance Fund'. It seems this fellow was babysitting his girlfriend's 2 year old daughter. After a while he got bored or something and proceeded to start kicking her back and forth like a soccerball across the living room until she died. I'm amazed that some people are againt the death penality.

[b29flteng]

I believe it's the result of the permisive society they were brought up in. I wouldn't even think of doing anything like that. Sick, sick people.

[k5083]

No, there are f--ked up, unstable, sociopathic individuals in every part of every society and that has been true since before there were societies. There are also relatively normal people that for some reason (depression, trauma, intoxication, whatever) temporarily become f--ked up, unstable, and sociopathic and do things like this -- again, every time and every place. It ain't society. It's a bell curve of sanity and someone's got to be on the low tail.

Death penalty -- good idea. That'll bring that 2-year-old back to life.

August

[Jack Cook]

Nothing brings em back. But a little justice (instead of 3 hots and a cot with free healthcare and all the other amenities) couldn't hurt.

[CAPFlyer]

As well, while it doesn't bring them back, it does guarantee that they won't do it again. Sadly, the history indicates that 75% of all offenders will repeat their offenses if released. If this guy was to not get the DP or at least Life without possibility of parole (which would be a bigger burden on our already overtaxed penal system), there's a good chance he'll do it again and one has to ask if that's justice.

[Zachary]

I suppose I am fairly liberal in my political views, but when it comes to crime and punishment, there are some crimes that deserve death - this is one of them in my opinion.

Zack

[Bill Greenwood]

I just had a discussion about the death penalty with my son who is a law school student. There are good reasons to oppose the death penalty, for instance if you are poor and black, you don't have the same chance of a fair trial. DNA checks have shown numerous cases of false convictions. Most free, democratic, nations other than the US have abolished it. My view of the issue is that I am generally against the death penalty, but there might be a few exceptions and severe child abuse is one of them.

[k5083]

Yeah but aside from the good general arguments about unequal administration, what problem would the death penalty solve in this case. The basic problem is that an innocent, probably wonderful child is dead. There is no solution to that. Another death just creates more grief; even killer wack-jobs have mothers and loved ones. This guy is obviously mentally disturbed or deficient, and others like him cannot be deterred by the threat of the death penalty because their brains don't work well enough. The guy himself can easily enough be put where he cannot harm people again. The only remaining argument is eye-for-eye Old Testament justice that was rejected by Jesus and every other moral philosopher in the two millennia since. Much as we'd all like to lash out at stuff like this, toying with life and death just to make us feel better ... ?

I don't know if Jack meant to start this debate or just to have us marvel at how sick some people are. That, I'm on board with. It's a big country with lots of room for some very very sick people. What can you do except reflect that they are balanced by so many very very good people.

August

[Broken-Wrench]

I agree with the the death penalty should only be used in extreme cases and there has to be no doubt of the guilt... I would like to see the prision system return to the chain gangs to help rebuild infrastructure ect. Shorter sentinces with hard labor.. Hard Work will solve alot of problems. To heck with the counseling.... Any mouth and strap across the back. Kids seeing chain gangs along the road working hard is a pretty good deterient.

[Nathan]

I suppose I am fairly liberal in my political views, but when it comes to crime and punishment, there are some crimes that deserve death - this is one of them in my opinion.

Zack

Agreed. I don't mean to sound sinickal but I also beleive rape cases should get the death penality as well. Its all about common sense.

As John Wayne once put it, " send em' to hell"!

Interesting thread.
(jumping for cover)

[RyanShort1]

The only remaining argument is eye-for-eye Old Testament justice that was rejected by Jesus and every other moral philosopher in the two millennia since. Much as we'd all like to lash out at stuff like this, toying with life and death just to make us feel better ... ?

August

Beg to differ... I believe that Jesus would've fully supported the death penalty. Problem was that in the case you may be referring to, the Pharisees were not following the law correctly. Also, it was not in Jesus, nor the Pharisees' jurisdiction to put the man to death. That is not the church's responsibility, it is the state, or local government's responsibility. Proper jurisdiction must be observed, else anarchy cometh.

I personally believe that the verse "Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man." (Gen. 9:6) is still the correct Biblical position. Capital punishment for certain crimes is not about feeling better. It is about forcing people to recognize the consequences of sin and evil. Another problem is that justice must be swift - not the long dragged out process that we have today.

Ryan

[muddyboots]

Tim McVeigh needed to get dead. Ted Bundy as well. Folks like that, it's a mercy to THEM as well as US when we put them down. But the vast majority of death row inmates are nowhere near that level of evil or sickness. Our death penalty has killed plenty of innocents, and will continue to until we abolish it. I tend to think that the possibility of the unjust execution of one innocent man nullifies our right to that "protection." There are just better ways to deal with most murderers. An Eye For an Eye is certainly dra,atic,. but rarely sensible or sane.

[mustangdriver]

Let me tell you what justice is. A guy is put in jail in Pittsburgh for a killing a woman. 13 years later through DNA testing it is found that he is innocent. THey let him out of jail. The next day, he killed the person that really did it. That my friends is justice. I work in the Air Ambulance industry and see what pieces of garbage do to people every day. If putting some of these pieces of crap to death helps eliminate on tortured child, one disrupted family, one victim, then I say put in an express lane to the chair bubba.

[RyanShort1]

Well, there may have been some innocent folks put to death, but part of the problem is the standards for conviction... For that death penalty in the Law, there had to be clear evidence, and witnesses. What I can't stand is today when we have clear evidence of murderers, etc... and they get by because the were "insane". I can tell you why they are insane - because they have committed crimes against God, and against their fellow man, and that kind of thing tends to drive people crazy. As Romans 1 says - they have been given over to a reprobate mind.

Ryan

[k5083]

Let me tell you what justice is. A guy is put in jail in Pittsburgh for a killing a woman. 13 years later through DNA testing it is found that he is innocent. THey let him out of jail. The next day, he killed the person that really did it. That my friends is justice.

I have thought hard about this story and I just can't see what point you are making. So I have to ask:

1. Your story ends with two people murdered and one guy who served 13 years for a murder he didn't commit and now must go back to prison for a murder he did commit. Two lives ended plus one wrecked. How exactly is this a good outcome?

2. I searched for this story to find out what happened to the guy who did the second murder, but couldn't find any indication that it really happened. Is it from a comic book? Urban legend?

3. If PA had the death penalty and administered it efficiently, the prisoner might have been executed before he could get out of jail to murder the real murderer. Would that have been better or worse than the outcome you described?

4. Since the "real" murderer was apparently never convicted, what you really mean was that the guy killed the guy who he thought was the real murderer. Would it be okay if he got it into his head that you were the real murderer?

5. Seems to me the innocent guy's beef was against the state that wrongly imprisoned him, not the real murderer. Shouldn't he instead have murdered the D.A. who prosecuted him, or perhaps the judge, or the jurors? That would be like a John Grisham novel I once read.

6. Your parable doesn't seem to be an argument for capital punishment, but rather for -- what? Vigilantism? Anarchy? Lord of the Flies?

August