AVIA questions
Fri Jan 21, 2005 8:49 pm
I was reading up on AVIA and their copies of the ME 109 and Me 262. I wasn't able to find out what were the final production figures of the S.99, S.199 and the S.92. I was wondering if anyone here knew? Also is it likely that there are S.99 or S.199s available to be restored to or converted to Me 109 status? In addition, does anyone know what happened to all the tooling? Would be nice to see new build ME 109s?
Thanks.
Shay
Thanks.
Shay
Fri Jan 21, 2005 9:54 pm
Hi Shay:
have you tried to contact the Aero company directly in Czechoslovakia?
Chris
have you tried to contact the Aero company directly in Czechoslovakia?
Chris
Fri Jan 21, 2005 11:16 pm
Re: AVIA questions
Fri Jan 21, 2005 11:28 pm
Shay wrote:I was reading up on AVIA and their copies of the ME 109 and Me 262. I wasn't able to find out what were the final production figures of the S.99, S.199 and the S.92. I was wondering if anyone here knew? Also is it likely that there are S.99 or S.199s available to be restored to or converted to Me 109 status? In addition, does anyone know what happened to all the tooling? Would be nice to see new build ME 109s?
Thanks.
Shay
20 109G-14 designated CS-99 and 2 G-12 designated CS-99 were produced from available stocks. A total of 550 of the later Jumo powered S-199 and CS-199 were produced. There are only three survivors, one single seat and one trainer in Prague, and one single seat ( ex 109G-14, so plant a DB in it and it is in its original condition
).
Flugwerk are building new 109s, Raymond Wagner has built some and technically the 109s coming out of Charlestones' shop in the UK are also new.
Dave
avia S-199
Sat Jan 22, 2005 5:02 am
From http://www.preservedaxisaircraft.com
Messerschmitt
Avia CS-199/HA-1109/HA-1112
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Type of aircraft Werk Nr. Country Status Reg Additional information
Avia CS-199 199565 Czech rep PV UC-26 Vojenske Muzeum Kbely AB, Prag
Avia S-199 199178 Czech rep CR? UF-25 Vojenske Muzeum Kbely AB, Prag
Avia S-199 782358 Israel PVX "112.T" IAF Museum Hazerim AB
Messerschmitt
Avia CS-199/HA-1109/HA-1112
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Type of aircraft Werk Nr. Country Status Reg Additional information
Avia CS-199 199565 Czech rep PV UC-26 Vojenske Muzeum Kbely AB, Prag
Avia S-199 199178 Czech rep CR? UF-25 Vojenske Muzeum Kbely AB, Prag
Avia S-199 782358 Israel PVX "112.T" IAF Museum Hazerim AB
Sat Jan 22, 2005 5:35 am
Col. Rohr wrote:Dave,
What about the stuff the Iseral have on display aren't they AVIA's
Cheers
RER
Opps omitted to say where the G-14 'Avia' is....Israel ( one only).
Dave
Sat Jan 22, 2005 10:35 am
DaveM2
Thanks for the good information.
Well I contacted the company and I guess we'll see what we come up with. If anything at all.
Shay
Thanks for the good information.
Well I contacted the company and I guess we'll see what we come up with. If anything at all.
Shay
Sat Jan 22, 2005 11:09 am
Woops Shay:
I gave you Aero, not Avia. However, contacting Aero won't hurt, because I've heard they make warbird parts, specificly the P-51 prop.
Chris
I gave you Aero, not Avia. However, contacting Aero won't hurt, because I've heard they make warbird parts, specificly the P-51 prop.
Chris
Sat Jan 22, 2005 11:29 am
Also:
Aero was around during WW2. Here's a summarized history of their aircraft:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aero_Vodochody
Aero was around during WW2. Here's a summarized history of their aircraft:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aero_Vodochody
Sat Jan 22, 2005 12:34 pm
"Me-262s"
S-92 Single Seater: 7 (though maybe 9, with last 2 not in service)
CS-92 Two Seater: 3
S-92 Single Seater: 7 (though maybe 9, with last 2 not in service)
CS-92 Two Seater: 3
Sat Jan 22, 2005 5:21 pm
Rob
As far as I am aware they only ever had the single example, but they were allocated 25 of the type, so certainly possible they may have a wreck in the 'yard' as well, although I have never seen it listed anywhere, or a picture.
Dave
As far as I am aware they only ever had the single example, but they were allocated 25 of the type, so certainly possible they may have a wreck in the 'yard' as well, although I have never seen it listed anywhere, or a picture.
Dave
Sat Jan 22, 2005 5:39 pm
israeli's had only 1 german type, that being me 109's during the 1948 war of independence & were used with marginal success, but i think 1 israeli pilot made ace status in the type if i recall, & he even might have been an american expatriot. any feedback?? other wise the israeli's had a mixed bag of surplus ww 2 u.s. & british planes fighters bombers etc, & some real odd ball types that would raise a few eyebrows on this site. there was even a movie to this topic in the 50's with kirk douglas, forgot the name of it. regards, tom
Sun Jan 23, 2005 10:50 pm
Modi Allon was the first Israeli ace and was an Israeli native. He used the S.199, and was later killed in the crash of one. They were unreliable, but they were the only thing available for the fledgling state. The S.199 with its Jumo power and large wooden airscrew had higher landing speeds than the Me109, and, in conjunction with the narrow track of the landing gear, many were lost in ground accidents
Their first combat sortie (I believe on May 29, 1948) was a ground support mission against a column of Egyptian armor only 22 miles away from Tel Aviv. While causing little physical damage, they were successful in halting the column. However, they lost one plane to ground fire and a second plane washed out on landing. Thus, Israel lost fifty percent of its fighter force on its first sortie.
Modi Allon shot down two Egyptian C-47s converted into bombers on June 3, 1948, thus giving the Israelis their first air-to-air victories.
The movie you recall was "Cast a Giant Shadow", a somewhat fictionalized version of the life of Col. David A. "Mickey" Marcus...he was a ground-pounder, though.
However, many Americans, among other foreigners, did volunteer for the IAF, including Jerry Kurz, a B-17 pilot who served a tour in the MTO during World War II. He flew the first B-17 sortie of the war, bombing Cairo as they flew from Czechoslovakia to their base at Ramat David in Israel.
Their first combat sortie (I believe on May 29, 1948) was a ground support mission against a column of Egyptian armor only 22 miles away from Tel Aviv. While causing little physical damage, they were successful in halting the column. However, they lost one plane to ground fire and a second plane washed out on landing. Thus, Israel lost fifty percent of its fighter force on its first sortie.
Modi Allon shot down two Egyptian C-47s converted into bombers on June 3, 1948, thus giving the Israelis their first air-to-air victories.
The movie you recall was "Cast a Giant Shadow", a somewhat fictionalized version of the life of Col. David A. "Mickey" Marcus...he was a ground-pounder, though.
However, many Americans, among other foreigners, did volunteer for the IAF, including Jerry Kurz, a B-17 pilot who served a tour in the MTO during World War II. He flew the first B-17 sortie of the war, bombing Cairo as they flew from Czechoslovakia to their base at Ramat David in Israel.