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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 11:24 pm 
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Where would you recover warbirds?

Please, not wistful thinking. Evaluate place on cost, politics, quality of wrecks, type of wrecks, etc.

I personally believe that Norway would be a good place. However, I would also like to recover the B-29s from the Lake Meade and Alaska.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 11:26 pm 
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Marshall Islands..........


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 4:20 am 
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Hi

It all depends
But based upon condition and rarity I would have to agree with Rob first - the Great lakes is the most cost effective place where you get bang for buck - the aircraft are more complete and in better condition than anywhere else

Next Norway for the rarity , diversity and condition of the wrecks

Next Russia - lakes etc - same reasons

anywhere else there are cold fresh water lakes - same rewasons

South Pacific stuff is more tortured and banged about - restorable but harder and much the same in the rest of the world.

The trouble with most of the best sites in America and Scandinavia /Russia is access - but it is worth it.

My opinion

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 Post subject: where to find 'em
PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 4:28 am 
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Latin America doesn't get mentioned too much; must be a few birds down there - any B-17 crash sites in Bolivia worth checking? And maybe someday we'll get a chance to look at the P-47 wrecksites in Cuba? Panama's been mentioned before, of course... any others?

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 12:09 pm 
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Chris Wrote:

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Panama's been mentioned before, of course... any others?


Yes, Panama. I have an article about a boneyard in the Panamanian jungle. Supposedly P-39s, A-20s, and possibly P-40s

Chris


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 3:20 pm 
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feeling, come to Forgotten Field. I will strew stuff around the 600 acres of woods surrounding the periphery of the place, make you wade in the Back River, cross the small creeks emptying on the river, and then send you tromping through the woods to find wreck treasures. Total package for doing this, with guaranteed signifigant warbird parts recovery, is $5000, including airfare, transportation via broken down Dodge truck, and a pup tent to live near your "find" for a few days.

Hey, dating that exotic game rancher's daughter in Texas really did teach me something!

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 4:26 pm 
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Sorry about the rambling post, to much drinking beer and hanging out last night. I'll try to string something coherent together.......

I agree with Rob, for all of his reasons, and a couple of others.

1. Jet warbirds. Flying, early, jet warbirds, seem to be a rarity. I live in warbird central, and I have yet to see any of them flying. But, everytime I hit up wix bro's for a T-33/P-80 fix, the response is fantastic. In the last couple of months, Ive seen F-86's, T-33's, P/F-80's, F-84's, ect, both here and in magazines, in various kinds of outside storage. I've also seen the projects for sale on places like Barnstormers both here and in Canada. If you look at Scotts list and Jbaughers list, you'll find the opportunity to become a modern day Maloney (I hope I got the name right). Every time I read this guys story, I'm amazed. One of the parts I found most interesting is that he went to tech and trade schools and was able to aquire all kinds of fantastic stuff, some for as little as hauling it off. I've recompiled the lists at least a half a dozen times, I've even researched some of the schools near me. Turns out that some of them have closed, or have refocused their curriculum to geekery, very recently. Excellent opportunities there.

2. One of the most amazing recoveries in recent times happened right here in the US, but not for the reason you'd probably think. That would be the Collings Foundations F-4. I'd like to coin a term, maybe something like, Legislated Recovery, I like that. There are tons of A-4's, F-4's, and most importantly A-6's, out there, just waiting to get back into the sky, and to an Airshow near you. Or to Warbird Adventure's, Stallion 51, just waiting to give you a ride. When I get my A-6 (positive thinking baby), I'm going to get me a congresscritter to legislatively recover it for me. Campaign donations, wix letter writing campaign, a non-profit, I don't care what it takes. At that time my politics become single issue.

3. There are T-6's, T-28's, L-5's, L-19's, Stearmans, ect, everywhere. A walk around the hangars at your favorite airport a few saturdays in a row, is going to turn up all kinds of interesting stuff, all very reasonable. Thats how I found my T-6. There was big chunks of it sitting behind a Bearcat. It all started with,"Whats that?". Recently there was a topic about the Barnstormers yard pics, the ones with all of the T-28's in various locations and various conditions. The topic got around to the condition of some of them. Some of them were in pretty bad condition, I'll grant, but the consensus seemed to be they were borderline worthless, myself included. What I'm getting at is, the folks, including me, who would think they are worthless, maybe rightly so, maybe not, would call a 60 yo P-38 jungle crash victim in a zillion pieces, a masterpiece, and definatley restorable.

4. There are a lot of larger aircraft that are in good condition also. S-2's, PV-2's, Mohawks, ect.


Latin/South America (Non-Dangerous)
Brazil
The Brazillian Navy has 4 P3-04's in crates somewhere. A P3-04 is really a P3-05 with different instrumentation. More info here,
http://www.pilatusp-3.com

El Salvador
This is a great picture, worthy of more research,
http://www.warbirdregistry.org/a26regis ... mages.html

It looks like an A-26, A T-6, and something that looks like a P-51 on the other side of the A26.

Mexico
There are still B-25's down there in various places. There's some info and pictures here
http://www.aerovintage.com/

Other aircraft in differrent places there include A-4's, Dragonfly's, ect...

I know the knocks on Jets. Price, Gas, Complexity, Training. I'll try to answer this all at once in a big sentence/paragraph.

As far as the hours required and training, lets face it, 500 hours is as close as a 1000 hours at this point in my training. I will acomplish both. A case can be made that a T-28 is more complex than a T-33. In fact, it can be said that most big ticket prop birds are more complex than a T-33. I , in my limited experience, have found that a lot of A&P dudes, have more experience and are way more comfortable/familiar working on Jet systems than round engines and pointy noses, thats helpful come restoration time. A nice T-33 should come in somewhere in the neighborhood of a 100k+. A nice T-28 is running 2-300+k. Which gets us to gas. Well, I'm 200k ahead of the game, that I didn't have to pay it to get airborne. 200k is a lot of gas, spread out over many years. As the price of big ticket prop birds goes up, I think you'll see that attitude begin to become more prevalent. Hmmmm, I can spend a mil5 on a P-51, or I can spend 500k on a sweet F-86, put the mil in a bank, and fly off of the interest. If I need a P-51 fix, hell I'm rich, I'll spend a week in Florida flying theirs.

I know I've harped on jets alot, and got off topic, but these birds are a lot closer to the average joe, like me, both physically, and monetarily, than almost any other warbird. I could probably start a T-33 project for less than an L-19. I know I sound like a selfish SOB, but the reason I started flying is to FLY warbirds. I want and hope one day to go to some exotic place and find and recover a big ticket bird. But, lets face it, I, like most of the people here, even if the Navy/NHC handed me a "get out of lake michigan free" card, Or the King of PNG gave me the bonus jungle pass, even on the slim chance I could get together the resources to actually retrieve the plane, when all is said and done, I'd probably end up like the dudes who originally went after the Glacier Girl. Even if I did get it back, the monetary resources and time to restore a big ticket bird, would put me at the same point as the guy who ended up with the Glacier girl, too old and broken down to fly it. I'm not trying to discourage anyone from trying it, I want to do it also. It's just that I think my expectations are reasonable, for me. First and foremost, I want to fly.

I hope this can add an additional way to think about recoveries.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 4:45 pm 
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www.courtesyaircraft.com

Just bring your checkbook...


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 5:09 pm 
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srpatterson wrote:
www.courtesyaircraft.com

Just bring your checkbook...


I have a better idea, can I bring yours? :)

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 5:30 pm 
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srpatterson wrote:
www.courtesyaircraft.com

Just bring your checkbook...


:D That is definately the perfered way.....

I can see it now....

Braving the torturous trip to the wilds of Rockford. Meeting and greeting King Mark. Taking the trip into the concrete and steel jungle where artifacts remain preserved forever. Digging out a treasure with my incredibly sharp and sophisticated check book tool. Leaving Rockford as King Mark leads the natives in songs about Mele Kalikimaka and No Ka Oi.....ahhhhhhh

The reality.....
The ole checkbook tool is super dull from banging it on T-6 parts and The evil landlords rent checks......King Mark throws me out of the jungle for talking too much and touching the artifacts....

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 1:41 am 
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Quote:
www.courtesyaircraft.com

Just bring your checkbook...


So this is what Rob meant when he said there are plenty of opportunities for recoveries in the US..


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 6:19 am 
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My bet would be on Norway or Scandinavia in general as well. Look at the recent past (Ju-88's, Heinkel, Halifaxes etc.)

Cees


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 10:47 am 
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Mmm yes, just make sure you bring your pontoons and scuba gear 8)

Any news about the three Hurribirds?

Cees


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 3:38 pm 
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Lake Balaton, Hungary?

Check here:
http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?placesearch=Off-Airport%20-%20Balaton%20Lake&distinct_entry=true

Regards,

Paul


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 4:56 pm 
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How about some PV-1/2's in the sky? Its rare and basic starter kits seem to be every where in the states?

PB4Y, PBY, A-26... where up for sale a few months ago.
There is a LB-30 that needs someone to giver her some love in the states.

What about those a/c stuffed in barns still, we all know they are out there. But where?

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