Warbird Information Exchange

I'm sure many of you at one point or another have found yourself standing there manning the fire bottle, as an aircraft starts up. I know if there is a problem, the solution is not always as simple squirt the fire.

My question is what is how does one most effectively use the fire bottle for various situations? I.E. Fire with a, jet engine, radial, water cooled, helicopter, intake ... or whatever.

I'm mostly talking about a possible engine fire, but for the benefit of all, please don't limit relevant insight strictly to this situation.

I know I can use a refresher, and hopefully this topic will help others as well.

It would be great if this topic yields as much insight, as the ejection seat thread.

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Curtis Block

I've seen too many airplanes destroyed by the term "Static Restoration."

What I was taught was if it's an engine fire you signal the pilot and wait for his command to take action, and that the first priority in any fire is to cover the crew and passengers as they get out of the aircraft, as fire bottles generally aren't big enough to put out a fire once it gets going, especially on fabric. Thats just what I was taught, luckily I've never had to use it! How's this compare with other people's instructions?

most fires can be put out by continuing the start. Another major fire problem is fuel on the ramp from over priming. That can just burn out or be put out, if too high. We use CO2 bottles for starting. If you use any other type on the aircraft, you have to clean and neutralize the engine compartment. You'll get corrosion sometime down the road if you use a standard fire extinguisher.

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Blue Skies,
Doug

www.cavanaughflightmuseum.com

While that's true for a stack fire, there are plenty of instances where something else catching on fire will not be solved by continuing to crank.

I'm not a fireman, but in the jet fighter business squirting the bottle down the intake in question is usually the first act by the "fire guard". There are instances of other fires on engine start that are located down in the belly, and for those they will also apply the retardant right on the location of the fire...and wait for the trucks to roll to take care of anything bigger.

Best Advice- take a fire extinguisher course offered at a local high school or fire department, and learn how to properly use one first.

The small bottles often seen on flight lines are pretty useless, unless the fire is caught right away. The larger ones on wheels, such as seen on large flightlines hold the most agent (HALON or CO2), but still do not last long, but long enough to get the job done.

Refer to POH for fires while starting...

Robbie

Basically, the mentality I have is to watch & alert the crew first and foremost. If there's a fire, signal it, and they'll give you the indication what to do. If they pull the handles and blow the onboard bottles and nothing happens, then it's your turn. Generally speaking, the onboard fire bottles will have a much better chance of extinguishing any external fires (i.e. anything burning outside the exhausts) than anything you have. If those don't work, then your job is to try to keep it down long enough to allow everyone to evacuate safely. I never plan on having enough agent (even in the big roller bottles we have at the CAF ramp) to put out a fire that the onboard bottles won't put out. If I end up putting it out, great, but I'm planning on just keeping it off the stuff that will cause big bangs or quickly expanding fires long enough for the occupants to get clear and then I'm heading clear too. It's not worth my life to try and put out a fire that has a LOT of fuel to feed on with a bottle. It's already difficult to put out aircraft fires with a foam truck, I harbor no doubts that doing it with a portable bottle is even harder.

I was refering to radial engine start. Most fires on starts, with a radial, will go out by contiuning the start. "Most" being the key word. You can also have a intake fire, that will go out by starting. In my 30 plus years working with warbirds, I have only used a firebottle once. All other fires, a few each year, have gone out by contiuing the start. My point was, keep trying to start it, then resort to the Fire extinguisher if the fire spreads to the accessory section. If you shoot halon in an engine, you just ruined it, therefore the CO2 is safer. In jets, if you get a fire, you have a fire, except in the tail where you can blow it out.

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Blue Skies,
Doug

www.cavanaughflightmuseum.com

quote]

I was refering to radial engine start. Most fires on starts, with a radial, will go out by contiuning the start. "Most" being the key word. You can also have a intake fire, that will go out by starting. In my 30 plus years working with warbirds, I have only used a firebottle once. All other fires, a few each year, have gone out by contiuing the start. My point was, keep trying to start it, then resort to the Fire extinguisher if the fire spreads to the accessory section. If you shoot halon in an engine, you just ruined it, therefore the CO2 is safer. In jets, if you get a fire, you have a fire, except in the tail where you can blow it out.[/quote]

I think you meant ABC dry chemical would ruin a engine, Halon is a gas.

And don't forget to watch out for the spinning prop when you rush forward to put out the fire.

I'm glad to see hand-on topics like this since quite a few of us here actively operate or crew warbirds.
Doug R.

In the past 25 years I can only think of three fires at Chino Airport, one was a motorhome that caught fire in a hangar, another was a battery being charged on a bench and the third was a homebuilt wooden P-40 replica during a maintenance runup (that one was fully consumed I think). They never did find out about the electric dryer incident in my hangar thankfully!

Does anyone have any personal experience of a fire on starting?

For you four engined types. You start the inboard engine first on whatever side you start with. Normally it is 3,4,2,1. the reason is, if you have a fire starting the inboard engine after starting the out board you could run into a spinning propeller in your zeal to put the fire out. You wouldn't want to ruin the propeller with your head would you? Be safe out there.

I had to take a Line Service Fire Extinguisher Use certification last year while working at Phazar in Meacham. When it came to jets, they told us to signal the pilots, wait for their signal, and run up and try to shoot the turbine with the fire extinguisher.

The supervisor also pointed out a panel under the turbine that can be pushed in to allow the fire extinguisher to blow deeper in the fan if need be.

Thankfully, I've never had to use it.

I've also heard about on radial engines, like on the T-6 or BT-13, if you do get a stack fire, to keep cranking as long as you can, because the fuel in the carburetor is drafted, and when the cranking stops the fuel sloshes into the cowling - where your fire happens to be.

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Great Minds Run in the Same Gutter.