my experience at the a-12 / oxcart symposium

[tom d. friedman]

what a grand show. mobile alabama. the a-12 pilots relating some of their duty during the 60's while flying the then ultra top secret a-12, the daddy to the sr-71 blackbird. alot of info remains classified, & will forever remain so according to the pilots that attended. wixer owen miller was a 1st class host. his museum is 1st class with the uss alabama which you need an entire day to tour. the ship is fabulously cared for, as is the sub uss drum. the aircraft in the hangar are of course the a-12, a kingfisher, an f8 crusader, yf-17 & many misc exhibits that i can't even mention. the place is definetely a destination if in that area. chris / mustang driver........ sorry you couldn't make it.

[mlenoch]

If I may ask a very dumb question: why and what information is still classified for the A-12, an aircraft that retired in the 1980s. Serious, albeit dumb, question.
Thx,
VL

[CAPFlyer]

Per the SR-71 guys I talked to, simply because the CIA can as much as any operational reason. How much of the CIA's previous "forays" have really been declassified to date? 25%? Maybe, but probably less.

About the only person who can force the CIA to declassify anything is the POTUS.

[Owen Miller]

Vlado, actually I believe the A-12 fleet was retired in 1968.
Some details of the missions remain classified. For example
Frank Murray, who flew the second mission over N Korea to
locate Pubelo, could not tell me much about it because the
Agency has not declassified it

For further reading I'd suggest......
http://roadrunnersinternationale.com/

[tom d. friedman]

owen is correct. you must realize the gravity of secrecy of this project. these guys are all professionals, patriots, & just plain heroes. they have kept their word, & only divulged what they were allowed to do, while being retired from service for over 25 years!! i think their honesty & integrity speaks for itself. 2 funny stories related over cocktails with the a-12 drivers..... murray's a-12 made an emergency landing on guam, the base staff see this buck rogers looking plane & they all scramble for their cameras, then the m.p.'s confiscate all the film. the other story is both tragic & humorous. jack weeks a-12 broke up at altitude (the symposium was part in tribute to him) 2 of the a-12 pilots were tapped to go find the wreckage in a civvie cessna 210 which the base used. they were in usaf flight suits. they needed to re-fuel & landed at a strip near groom lake. they taxied to a building that turned out to be a cathouse!! they were greeted by the madam, & she made them burgers for lunch.

[Owen Miller]

Tom, buddy, how much scotch did you have that night??

Weeks crashed in the South China Sea on his way home from
Kadena. The crash at Area 51 when Barnes and Murray went
searching in the 210 was for an another aircraft. The cathouse
part of the story remains accurate........

[mlenoch]

I can understand some of the mission routes being classified.
Are the true performance numbers still classified? Speed, altitude, range, etc.? Seems some write ups speak of these numbers as still being classified.
Thx,
VL
(Cathouse!!....Gawd bless 'em!! - "I'll take mine well done, please.")

[b29flteng]

The flight manual is available for purchase. See below.

For those that like to collect flight manuals, the Lockheed A-12 flight manual has been released by the CIA and is available on CD through www.paperlessarchive.com for under $15.00. I purchased a copy last week and it arrived today. It includes the flight manual, ground service manual, camera operation manual, and some of the Oxcart/Black Shield mission reports.

The only item that is still classified in the manual is some of the defensive systems. It has all the performance figures and charts.

[mlenoch]

b29....Thx!
That answers my inquiry!
VL

[tom d. friedman]

Tom, buddy, how much scotch did you have that night??

Weeks crashed in the South China Sea on his way home from
Kadena. The crash at Area 51 when Barnes and Murray went
searching in the 210 was for an another aircraft. The cathouse
part of the story remains accurate........

i did have quite a few!!

[Owen Miller]

That was a pretty good night wasn't it??

[tom d. friedman]

owen, i was in hog heaven!!! to finally spend some time with you, & be amongst heroes of that magnitude was the coolest. you worked your keester off that event, my only regret was i didn't get a chance to sit in the a-12. those pilots were some of the most colorfull personalities i've ever met.

[Mark Nankivil]

Good story - thanks for sharing.

In regards to the A-12 Manuals on CD - the link does not have anything that I can find directing me to the CD. Where can I find that? Thanks!

Enjoy the Day! Mark

[mustangdriver]

Just because the manual is for sale, does not mean the most accurate info is always in the one that you are buying. There is a volunteer that is well known at the NMUSAF that flew the SR-71, and there are many things that are classifiedstill like the missions flown. Other things have been published such as max speed, and altitude, but that doesn't mean that they are correct, just what they are telling you. That is right from his own words. Remember that the only reason we really know about the SR-71 is because they built too many of them. And even the number built is not really known.

[tom d. friedman]

the book you want is authored by chief cia historian dr. david robarge.... entitled "ARCHANGEL: CIA'S SUPERSONIC A-12 RECONNAISSANCE AIRCRAFT "

government printing office (gpo)
superintendent of documents
p.o. box 391954
pittsburgh, pa 15250 -7954
phone # 202 -512 -1800

email : orders@gpo.gov
book isbn: 978-1-929667-16-1

it should be free....... mine was sent well before the oxcart symposium. after all...... your tax dollars paid for the book!! pretty comprehensive reading!!