Airventure doesn't get it.

Forgotten Field · **Posted:** Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:36 pm

Quote:

I have an Indian.

A redeeming quality...

bdk · **Joined:** Sun May 02, 2004 1:16 am **Posts:** 11330

Oshkosh is great if you want to buy a new Mooney or a 49% assembled kitplane. It has lost it's grassroots flavor and the spirit of innovation in exchange for the pursuit of money.

mustangdriver · **Posted:** Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:34 pm

bdk wrote:

Oshkosh is great if you want to buy a new Mooney or a 49% assembled kitplane. It has lost it's grassroots flavor and the spirit of innovation in exchange for the pursuit of money.

I have to say that I disagree. It is all that is aviation. It takes some one who thinks only about warbirds, and introduces them to all aspects of aviation. They have done more for General Aviation then just about any other organization.

Mudge · **Posted:** Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:37 pm

OMG Eric...That picture brought a wave of nostalgia. My first bike was a '51 Chief. It was that same color. Paid $265 for it in '57. Sold it for $250 when I left ABQ in '59.
If we only knew then what we know now.

Mudge the ex-biker

Dan K · **Posted:** Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:28 pm

bdk wrote:

Oshkosh is great if you want to buy a new Mooney or a 49% assembled kitplane. It has lost it's grassroots flavor and the spirit of innovation in exchange for the pursuit of money.

WHAT??

Brandon, I can understand your "grassroots" comment (But isn't that true with any organization/event that has grown to Airventure's proportions?).

But "lost...the spirit of innovation"?

You don't feel that Gerry Beck's efforts were innovative?

XCOR's rocket engines?

White Knight?

"Glacier Girl" (both recovery and restoration showcased)

Vickers Vimy?

Really?

Zachary · **Posted:** Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:47 pm

bdk wrote:

Oshkosh is great if you want to buy a new Mooney or a 49% assembled kitplane. It has lost it's grassroots flavor and the spirit of innovation in exchange for the pursuit of money.

For crying out loud - have you actually been here??? Have you ever seen just how many workshops and forums on building your own airplane from scratch that are given during each and every day of AirVenture, by EAA staff and volunteer members? Access to EAA tech councelors, workshops on welding, fabric covering, rib-building, designing, engines, the list goes on and on. If all you see when you come here is the glitzy sponsor displays like Ford, Cessna, Cirrus, or Mooney around AeroShell Square, then you're not seeing the big picture of what AirVenture is really all about. The grassroots flavor of AirVenture has never left, it's just been supplemented and surrounded by everything else that is aviation, from warbirds to ultralights to acrobatics to spacecraft. There is literally something for everyone. And if you want to break it down even more, there are grass-roots EAA pancake breakfasts, fly-ins, poker runs, chapter meetings, etc. going on nearly every day of the year, all across the country. All you have to do is participate.

As for the "pursuit of money" argument, it just doesn't hold water. No one at EAA is getting rich, I can assure you of that. If they are, I'd sure like to hear about it. After the AirVenture bills are paid, all profits go into keeping the organization (including the Museum) running for another year, improving the convention grounds, and increasing member benefits through such things as online videos, putting the entire Sport Aviation magazine archive online, creating a new Knowledge and Information Center, etc. etc. If you break down everything you get for a $40 a year membership, or everything you have access to for $21 for a day at AirVenture, you are getting your money's worth. I challenge you to name one other aviation organization that gives you as much for the price.

Okay, I'll hop off the soapbox now. This wasn't entirely directed at you BDK, but rather at everyone that gripes about the organization.

Zack

ZRX61 · **Joined:** Tue Jun 14, 2005 10:16 am **Posts:** 2309

Matt Gunsch wrote:

Hey Eric, do you have anything that does not use or leak oil by the gallon ? Skyraider and harleys, how can you tell which parks where ? Oh, maybe the Harley's oil puddle is closer to the wall ?

3350's don't leak as much as Harleys, so the smaller puddle would be in the middle of the hangar.. :wink:

& on that subject... If you want to stop ANY engine leaking oil, use 3Bond 1104. That's what ya use to make round engines (& Harleys) oil tight. One tube goes a LONG way.

mustangdriver · **Posted:** Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:29 pm

Zachary wrote:

bdk wrote:

Oshkosh is great if you want to buy a new Mooney or a 49% assembled kitplane. It has lost it's grassroots flavor and the spirit of innovation in exchange for the pursuit of money.

For crying out loud - have you actually been here??? Have you ever seen just how many workshops and forums on building your own airplane from scratch that are given during each and every day of AirVenture, by EAA staff and volunteer members? Access to EAA tech councelors, workshops on welding, fabric covering, rib-building, designing, engines, the list goes on and on. If all you see when you come here is the glitzy sponsor displays like Ford, Cessna, Cirrus, or Mooney around AeroShell Square, then you're not seeing the big picture of what AirVenture is really all about. The grassroots flavor of AirVenture has never left, it's just been supplemented and surrounded by everything else that is aviation, from warbirds to ultralights to acrobatics to spacecraft. There is literally something for everyone. And if you want to break it down even more, there are grass-roots EAA pancake breakfasts, fly-ins, poker runs, chapter meetings, etc. going on nearly every day of the year, all across the country. All you have to do is participate.

As for the "pursuit of money" argument, it just doesn't hold water. No one at EAA is getting rich, I can assure you of that. If they are, I'd sure like to hear about it. After the AirVenture bills are paid, all profits go into keeping the organization (including the Museum) running for another year, improving the convention grounds, and increasing member benefits through such things as online videos, putting the entire Sport Aviation magazine archive online, creating a new Knowledge and Information Center, etc. etc. If you break down everything you get for a $40 a year membership, or everything you have access to for $21 for a day at AirVenture, you are getting your money's worth. I challenge you to name one other aviation organization that gives you as much for the price.

Okay, I'll hop off the soapbox now. This wasn't entirely directed at you BDK, but rather at everyone that gripes about the organization.

Zack

Very well said pal. I will see you at the Timeless voices booth.

bdk · **Joined:** Sun May 02, 2004 1:16 am **Posts:** 11330

Zachary wrote:

bdk wrote:

Oshkosh is great if you want to buy a new Mooney or a 49% assembled kitplane. It has lost it's grassroots flavor and the spirit of innovation in exchange for the pursuit of money.

For crying out loud - have you actually been here???

No, never been, that's just what I heard... :roll:

Quote:

You don't feel that Gerry Beck's efforts were innovative?
XCOR's rocket engines?
White Knight?
"Glacier Girl" (both recovery and restoration showcased)
Vickers Vimy?

No disrespect meant to Mr. Beck's memory, but what exactly was innovative about his P-51A? Nice piece of work, but innovatve? Do tell!

And just because you display an innovative car at a car show, it does not make the car show itself innovative.

Even Sport Aviation turned into something not worth the paper it was printed on (and no, I haven't seen one in about 4 years- I decline the magazine now). I'm a member now primarily for the EAA's lobbying efforts and still get the Warbirds magazine.

So when did you first start going?

mustangdriver · **Posted:** Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:20 am

BDK are you serious? Do you know how man companies wait for Oshkosh to announce the new aircraft? FAA waits to present awards, museums and owners attend with new restorations. There are people that set the time table to get their aircraft ready for Oshkosh. The people are great there. Everyone is there for the same reason. TO enjoy aviation. It's a pleasant enviroment. With all do respect, unless you have been there, you don't understand. And if you have been there and don't like it, maybe you don't get it. Remember this is NOT a warbird airshow. It's not meant to be. Warbirds play a part of the show. This is a General Aviation Convention.

mustangdriver · **Posted:** Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:22 am

Ive been going every year since I was 15. That was 1995.

EDowning · **Posted:** Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:56 am

Mustangdriver wrote:

Quote:

Remember this is NOT a warbird airshow. It's not meant to be. Warbirds play a part of the show. This is a General Aviation Convention

Thanks! I've been trying to think exactly what about Airventure that I didn't like, but I couldn't put my finger on it. That's it.

mustangdriver · **Posted:** Wed Jun 18, 2008 1:09 am

Then don't go. It's not rocket science.

EDowning · **Posted:** Wed Jun 18, 2008 1:17 am

Speaking of rocket science, wait until you see what the Einsteins at your favorite museum did to the A-25 to move it from MN. I don't whether it was a chainsaw or a butcher knife, but it ain't pretty.

mustangdriver · **Posted:** Wed Jun 18, 2008 1:18 am

RickH wrote:

Eric, know what you mean. What bugs me is their fuel policy. They want the warbirds to fly to enhance their show, which further enhances attendance. BUT,....if you aren't one of the annointed ones who fly in the showcase after 4:00 then they don't give you gas for your participation. Fly at 3:45 no joy, fly after 4:00, no problem here's the truck ! Same airshow, same crowd ! What's wrong with this picture?

Umm your not part of the scheduled airshow. That is why no fuel. IT makes sense. There has to be a line cut somewhere.

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Airventure doesn't get it.

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