Tue Feb 01, 2005 5:14 pm
RMB: You might just want to cool your jets for a moment and do a little research. The B-29 is the only design that you mention that was not PURCHASED by the Russians.
Wright was selling them engines and designs and production rights to numerous engine designs in the mid 1930's, including what became the 1820.
Pratt sold them designs and rights to numerous models including the Hornet and Wasp series engines.
Rolls sold the Russians 25 Nenes and 25 Derwents for various programs along with production rights to both engines in 1946.
Vultee sold numerous designs and products with production rights to Russia all the way up to the early part of the war.
Douglas sold rights as well as all the tooling and manufacturing aids for both the DC-2 and DC-3 to Russia in 1935, with a full delivery of 1 flying DC-3, one in major subassemblies and 50 more in kit parts along with tons of raw extrusions to build piece parts from 1936 to 1939.
Martin helped build and bring to production several Russian designs prior to the war.
Consolidated was working with the Russians on building PBY's in Russia prior to the war.
These were just a few of the technology and design sales from the US and Brittian that I found in a five minuet internet search.
Granted they did and continue to pursue technology by any means, but give them credit for doing things the legal method when they did.
If you think that I'm an apologist for or a Russia lover, you've got another thing coming. I'm simply an aero engineer that appreciates good design work and design philosophies that make sense. In addition I daily work with the most advanced aircraft in US production as well as having had some experience working on one of their most advanced fighters too.
Wright was selling them engines and designs and production rights to numerous engine designs in the mid 1930's, including what became the 1820.
Pratt sold them designs and rights to numerous models including the Hornet and Wasp series engines.
Rolls sold the Russians 25 Nenes and 25 Derwents for various programs along with production rights to both engines in 1946.
Vultee sold numerous designs and products with production rights to Russia all the way up to the early part of the war.
Douglas sold rights as well as all the tooling and manufacturing aids for both the DC-2 and DC-3 to Russia in 1935, with a full delivery of 1 flying DC-3, one in major subassemblies and 50 more in kit parts along with tons of raw extrusions to build piece parts from 1936 to 1939.
Martin helped build and bring to production several Russian designs prior to the war.
Consolidated was working with the Russians on building PBY's in Russia prior to the war.
These were just a few of the technology and design sales from the US and Brittian that I found in a five minuet internet search.
Granted they did and continue to pursue technology by any means, but give them credit for doing things the legal method when they did.
If you think that I'm an apologist for or a Russia lover, you've got another thing coming. I'm simply an aero engineer that appreciates good design work and design philosophies that make sense. In addition I daily work with the most advanced aircraft in US production as well as having had some experience working on one of their most advanced fighters too.
Nene
Tue Feb 01, 2005 5:33 pm
cvairworks, I agree with most of your post. But I thought the Soviets
never paid for the production rights to the Nene.
As for that History Channel "Secrets" video series(4)...I thought they took
some rather large leaps of "artistic license" with some of the facts. But
they did give a good show for some obscure types, and I agree with Rob
the animation was nice!
never paid for the production rights to the Nene.
As for that History Channel "Secrets" video series(4)...I thought they took
some rather large leaps of "artistic license" with some of the facts. But
they did give a good show for some obscure types, and I agree with Rob
the animation was nice!
Tue Feb 01, 2005 5:49 pm
I could be wrong on the Nene production rights. One source that I was reading says they bought engines only, but another source says they bought designs too. I'm not that up on Russian designs, but I do have a contact that has had complete access to several of the design bureau's archives. If I can ever get over to talk to him, I can quiz him a little. I do need to get his books and go through them too.
As to the license with the facts....I'll reserve judgement until I get a chance to see the credits and source listing. The series is only being shown the one time for now it appears so I'm going to have to order the DVD's. IF they used some of the people that I know of, and respect, then I would say that all the data is very accurate and could be independently verified.
As to the license with the facts....I'll reserve judgement until I get a chance to see the credits and source listing. The series is only being shown the one time for now it appears so I'm going to have to order the DVD's. IF they used some of the people that I know of, and respect, then I would say that all the data is very accurate and could be independently verified.
Tue Feb 01, 2005 7:06 pm
I would thrust anything from the History Channel.
The only time I watched it, I spent more time yelling at it than listening to the rubbish they were showing.
But you're right about the B-29 and the other planes and engines.
I think we would have seen the bit about the two engineers and the MiG-15 before it aired on TV in a book or a magazine.
The only time I watched it, I spent more time yelling at it than listening to the rubbish they were showing.
But you're right about the B-29 and the other planes and engines.
I think we would have seen the bit about the two engineers and the MiG-15 before it aired on TV in a book or a magazine.
History Channel
Tue Feb 01, 2005 7:28 pm
Ollie...As to History Channel "sore throat"...yes we get 'em too. Some
times the facts are OK..but it's how the producers often "cobble" them
together to form the stories. A key detail..like the Mig engineers..
"breaking" on the HC..I suspect the claim. Like cvairworks says.."let's see
what the credits say".
times the facts are OK..but it's how the producers often "cobble" them
together to form the stories. A key detail..like the Mig engineers..
"breaking" on the HC..I suspect the claim. Like cvairworks says.."let's see
what the credits say".
Tue Feb 01, 2005 9:11 pm
Finally found the listing for the 4 DVDs that compile this series on Secret Aircraft of XXXX. It wasn't listed in the normal category that the average person would think to look under. After a few minuets of bouncing around their webstore I did find the series. Bummer though is that it will be at least the middle of Feb. before it's release. When you look at the individual DVD's they have a mid March release date, so I figure that it will probably be at least March before I can get my hands on a set. Unless THC decides to run the series again before then!
Bummed that I can't get them now, but glad to see them being made available!
Bummed that I can't get them now, but glad to see them being made available!